Session 17 - Going Beyond the First Position

[Eracer_Team-DougH]

Maybe some century I'll meet you and Neil up here.

Good work keep on pick'n

[NeilES335]

9 hours ago, Eracer_Team-DougH said:

Maybe some century I'll meet you and Neil up here.

Good work keep on pick'n

If there is ever a "  Student Perseverence Award" Doug should be the 1st recipient!

[Eracer_Team-DougH]

25 minutes ago, NeilES335 said:

If there is ever a "  Student Perseverence Award" Doug should be the 1st recipient!

Sadly must attest to something 

[ScottH]

First off, great course I’m really starting to see some skills develop.  Along those lines, with the work on scales, spelling chords, and learning the notes on the fretboard, I’ve come to realize that only the open suspended chords given in lesson 6 (Asus, Dsus, and Esus) are suspended 4 chords where as the suspended bar chords are suspended 4 chords with a flatted seventh (*7sus4 or *7sus or *sus7) I don’t know if this matters or not but when I’m playing along with some of the tracks and the song asks for a Fsus or a Gsus All I know how to play is the bar suspended bar chord which is a seven chord, which is what I do.  Should I figure out how to finger the suspended chord without the 7th?  And...has anyone else been confused with this? Is a suspended 7 chord considered the same (or equivalent) to a suspended chord (1,4,5) even with the flatted seventh?

[matonanjin]

On 6/19/2019 at 4:24 PM, NeilES335 said:

...

I do have the patterns down pretty well in Key of F, and moving to Key of D and Bb does not seems to be that difficult. I'm trying to focus on saying and playing the notes to get the most out of the exercises, and I'm a lot more familiar with the fret positions above the 5th - 17 th position. 

....

I posted a while ago about starting this session and, quite honestly, got distracted.  But I'm back.  And now starting it with a vengeance.

But I got to going on the 3 notes per string, I'm just on the 1st form, F major scale, and trying to figure out what my goal/expectation should be here.  I am focusing on saying and playing the notes with Steve.  But is the goal here to actually memorize every note?! Or are we, as with the Pentatonic scale, just learning patterns?  He does say that this is "a way...that help you learn the notes on the entire neck of your guitar". 

I think I know the answer here but I just want to confirm the goal is to finally learn every note.  @NeilES335 and the rest of you that have finished #17, did you memorize every note? 

[Wim VD1]

13 hours ago, matonanjin said:

I posted a while ago about starting this session and, quite honestly, got distracted.  But I'm back.  And now starting it with a vengeance.

But I got to going on the 3 notes per string, I'm just on the 1st form, F major scale, and trying to figure out what my goal/expectation should be here.  I am focusing on saying and playing the notes with Steve.  But is the goal here to actually memorize every note?! Or are we, as with the Pentatonic scale, just learning patterns?  He does say that this is "a way...that help you learn the notes on the entire neck of your guitar". 

I think I know the answer here but I just want to confirm the goal is to finally learn every note.  @NeilES335 and the rest of you that have finished #17, did you memorize every note? 

Hello Ron,

my short answer is: yes, you should learn all the notes on the fretboard 😀

Personally, I used another method to get there, as explained in earlier replies in this thread

To me, the "3 notes per string" is another way to play major scale based runs that is especially beneficial when you want to play fast legato style.

Although these 3NPS exercises were part of my practice schedule for months, I have not really used the legato technique in the songs and solos I learned so far. But never say never...

Wim.

 

 

 

[Strings]

Steve says to play the 3 Note-On-A-String scales in every key.  He begins by teaching the forms in the Key of F (first position).  Would the next key be F#/Gb (second position)?  In the workout portion of the video he starts the Key of C in the first position using the 4th form.  I guess I am looking for an organized way to say and play every key.  Thanks for any input.  I have learned all 7 forms and can play them up and down the neck.  

[Gary Nelson]

Strings,

It's been a while since I went through the L&M course and admittedly I don't practice scales as often as I should.   But  when  I try to get scales or chord shapes or chord progressions under my fingers,  I have found that it helps to  bite things off in smaller chunks.    I generally first focus on the "guitar friendly" keys of C, A, G, E and D.     Once I am comfortable with those basics, then I drop back and pick up some of the other keys.   By that time, I am comfortable with the shapes so picking up those additional keys seems a bit easier.     

[Strings]

Thanks Gary.  Where would you begin the keys C, A, G, E and D on the fretboard?  I’m trying to draw the connection between using the 7 forms and where to begin them on the fretboard and which form to begin with.  Hope my question makes sense 😀

[Gary Nelson]

Hi Strings.    The way I have approached it is to first learn where those root notes are located on the fretboard - starting with the low E and A strings.    Then starting with the root in that location you can play a scale starting at that point.   Then, play the scale starting at the same root note on a different string.   Some folks will say the names of the notes as they play the scale to help them learn where the notes are located up and down the fretboard.   Keep in mind that the root note repeats in these patterns.  So for example, in the first form of the F major scale in Steve's examples on page 89 of L&M, the F would be the first note you play on the E string, but also at the third fret D string in that same pattern,   So you can use that pattern for any root note on the E string, or for a scale with the root on the D string.   If you look at his examples,  they are all for the F major scale (containing the B flat) but the root of the scale is not always the first note you play.   You can tell from his music notation where the F occurs.   Hope I haven't added more confusion!   

[Strings]

Thanks Gary.  Appreciate your input 😀

[Randy120]

Gary is correct. You can start with the CAGED keys because they are constantly used for guitar. Learn the octaves so you can find all the A's etc. You will find the patterns repeat. Play a pattern in A move two frets now you are playing B with the same pattern. You can always add more keys later. Three notes on a string is a really good learning tool. 

[Strings]

Thanks Randy.  It’s been interesting leaning into this lesson.  The nuances to learning is really quite interesting.  Somehow as time progresses all the pieces of the puzzle emerge.  Right now I am going in order of sharps (C, G, D, A, E, B)—the way Steve taught—and determining the lowest fret and in what form to play.  I will then do the same for the flat keys.

[Strings]

I wanted to find the lowest position to play each key.  It was an interesting process to find where each key landed.  I was also surprised that each key, whether # or flat, uses the same form—although beginning at a different fret.  All of the sharp keys can be played starting at the 2nd fret; all of the flat keys can be played starting at the first fret.

Key C 1st fret; 4th form

Key G 2nd fret; 7th form

Key D 2nd fret; 3rd form

Key A 2nd fret; 6th form

Key E 2nd fret; 2nd form

Key B 2nd fret; 5th form 

 

Key F 1st fret; 1st form

Key Bb 1st fret; 5th form

Key Eb 1st fret; 2nd form

Key Ab 1st fret; 6th form

Key Db 1st fret; 3rd form

Key Gb 1st fret; 7th form

 

I can play the forms up and down the neck.  I now need to be able to recall each form by itself.  This will allow me to easily play all 12 keys starting at either the 1st or 2nd fret.  I think I would then be able to say and play each key over the length of the fretboard.

This process has been quite a journey—a good one.