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NeilES335

Session 4 - Eight Notes

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A Forum for Learn and Master Guitar Students to ask questions, make comments, receive advice and encouragement, and post their progress on Session 4.

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Note to those in Session 4 Bonus. 

There is a string skipping exercise that holds most people up on their progress in this session which could take months or more to master.

Don't get hung up on this exercise 

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15 minutes ago, Eracer_Team-DougH said:

Note to those in Session 4 Bonus. 

There is a string skipping exercise that holds most people up on their progress in this session which could take months or more to master.

Don't get hung up on this exercise 

Thanks for posting under the correct Session Doug!

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On 10/26/2018 at 5:25 PM, NeilES335 said:

A Forum for Learn and Master Guitar Students to ask questions, make comments, receive advice and encouragement, and post their progress on Session 4.

Words of Wisdom and direction for those studying Session 4 and beyond, by Steve Krenz;

Steve has always said Session 4 is really like having two sessions in one. And he encourages members to divide it into 2 parts as you are doing. Here are a few posts from the old forum that contain his words of wisdom:

Posted by Steve Krenz on 18 June 2009 - 06:18 AM in Guitar Session 4 (old LMG forum)

Well, welcome to Session 4!

Session 4 is the last session on learning the notes in the first position. If you can get through it successfully you will have reached the first big milestone in the course.

End of Session 4 - Note Reading 

In the past 4 sessions you will have learned how to read music and how to play the notes on all of the strings in the first position. 

But don't start celebrating yet. You still have Session 4 to get through.

Here are some words of wisdom having walked many people through these concepts. 

1) Session 4 is a big session. It's really two major concepts (The Notes on the 5th & 6th Strings and Sharps & Flats) all rolled into one session.Plan on it taking twice as long as the other sessions. I don't mean to discourage you, I'm just keeping it real. 

There are several "big" sessions in the course ie. Big concepts, longer time involved, bigger payoff at the end... And session 4 is the first of them. Don't get discouraged by this, just relax and continue what you've been doing...climbing day by day, exercise by exercise, skill by skill through the material. 

2) Since Session 4 basically has two parts to it, I encourage you to split them up as you practice them. The first part of Session 4 is learning the notes on the 5th and 6th strings. So, initially just worry about those. Don't even worry about the Sharps and Flats part of it at first.

As you are learning the notes on the 5th and 6th strings, you'll find yourself back at square 1 again with fumbling for the notes and getting your fingers to land where your brain is telling them to land. You'll go through the phase of feeling like nothing is working, even the notes from the earlier sessions you'll miss for a while, but don't worry about this, this is all normal and everyone goes through this phase. 

The notes on the 5th and 6th strings are the LAST notes you'll need to conquer for a while.  

Go through as much of the exercises and Bonus exercises and songs and Hal Leonard Easy Pop Melodies songs as you can... as many times as possible. 

You're building muscle memory and note recognition which is built by repetition. So do the songs over and over again, and keep doing the old songs.

Once you have a pretty good handle on all of the notes in the first position, then start working on the Sharps and Flats alterations to them. This will bring a whole new world of possibilities and challenges. But with practice they will start to come together.

These are very important concepts for playing guitar so really dig into learning them.

And when you get through Session 4, then take yourself out to dinner, or better yet to the guitar store!  

Ask questions as you need to. Many people here have gone through the same things that you are going through and they can help you. 

Keep up the great work! And I'll see you on the other side of Session 4.

- Steve Krenz 

 

Posted 05 July 2009 - 09:12 PM 

Matthew,  

Congratulations on making it to Session 4! You've come a long way and there is nothing that is in Session 4 that is beyond you. It's just a continuation of your learning of the notes in the first position. 

Yes, it's a big session. (Actually, it's really 2 sessions in one. - the notes on the 5th & 6th strings and sharps & flats.)

I encourage you to think of it that way - 2 separate sessions. Focus in on the new notes on the 5th & 6th strings first, before trying to work with the sharps and flats.

Also, it is important that you get all of the practice reading that you can. Read the old exercises and songs, Read the Bonus Workshop exercises and songs, Read the Hal Leonard Easy Songs. Read them all. Over and over. Repetition, repetition, repetition will help you. 

The notes on the 5th and 6th strings are going to be tough for you at first. But let me give you some hope. A few sessions ago you thought that the notes on the earlier strings were impossible. That's how you are going to probably feel about the notes on the 5th & 6th strings. But you will conquer them just like you did the earlier strings. 

At the end of this session, you will have reached the first major milestone in the course. This session represents the end of the formal working on the first position notes. It's a big deal. You still have a ways to go but you'll get there.

Keep up the great work! 

- Steve Krenz 

 

Posted 17 February 2015 - 09:34 AM

It's great to hear everyone's progress.   

Here are some thoughts.

SESSION 4 IS REALLY TWO DIFFERENT SESSIONS

Session 4 covers two major concepts. 1) The completion of the notes in the first position. 2) And, sharps and flats. Treat them as two completely different sessions.  Give Session 4 about twice the amount of time to complete as you've been having on the other sessions.  Work on learning the notes on the 5th and 6th strings first.  And, go through the exercises and songs that apply in the book and bonus resources book.  (The Easy Pop Melodies series is great at this time to give you more songs to practice with.  You can see that HERE )

Then, move on to sharps and flats.

IT'S NOT A RACE, TAKE THE TIME NEEDED TO LEARN

Yes, it's not a race.  So, take your time, and really learn the concepts.  Yes, it's hard.  The songs are harder.  Don't take the easy way and just fake your way through them.  Invest the time needed to do them as best as you can do them.  Start slowly.  Break the songs down into pieces and then put the pieces together once you've got them worked out.

DON'T DEMAND PERFECTION - IT'S NOT TIME FOR THAT

This session is about going through as much material as you can find.  It's about solving the problems of what the notes are and where they are over and over and over again in a variety of situations.  

Think of it like this.  If you were learning to drive, you wouldn't train by driving the exact same street every day until you can get it absolutely perfect. 

You need to be put in lots of different driving situations and get used to working with new elements.  

That's how it is with learning to play at this stage.  You need lots of practice with different musical situations.  Don't burden yourself with waiting to move on until every song is perfect.  Don't wait for perfection.  Do the best you can then keep moving.

- Steve 

 

And here is another containing Steve's wisdom. I remember him using climbing a mountain as an example.

Posted 06 May 2008 - 04:18 PM

Hello, 

 Everyone had been talking about how they are camping here at Session 4 so I thought I would carry the analogy along.

Let me first welcome you to beautiful Session 4. I'm not going to point out the dangerous parts which you have all found so naturally. Let me take a moment to point out the beautiful things that will get done here at Camp 4. 

Camp 4 is easily the biggest of the sessions that you have come through. Bigger challenges, Bigger songs, but also bigger payoffs. 

Let me give you the big picture of your Learn and Master Guitar journey. The first half of the course or so is the "Learn" part of the journey. Let me give you the run down of that part of the course. 

Session 1 - The Park Entrance 
Lots of encouragement, introduction to basic skills, first aid station for your fingers. Lots of benches to rest on. Lots of pictures of mountain scenery hanging on the lodge wall. Lots of picture windows of great musical mountain vistas. An air of possibility, expectation and dreams fulfilled. Basic hiking and camping skills introduced. 

Sessions 2, 3, 4 - Learning Your Notes 
Now you begin to start climbing. Step after step, exercise after excercise, string after string, skill after skill. It's feels tough at the time and yet occasionally discouraging because you turn around and you can still see the car in the parking lot because you haven't travelled up too far. But by Session 4, you can't see the car anymore, just endless upwards steps and somewhere way up ahead a turn in the path. 

But what I know, that you may have trouble seeing, is that at the end of Session 4 is your first big milestone and visitors center. The one with the big leather couches, capachino machines, huge picturesque windows with the next summit, and if you turn around you can still see the car in the parking lot but only with binoculars now. 

Session 4 is the last stand for single notes. After session 4, you have reached your first summit - you've learned all of your notes in the first position. You've learned how to read music, you've learned about sharps and flats. You've learned a few chords along the way as well as a lot about yourself and persevering. 

There is a big bell in the visitor center between Session 4 and 5 that bedraggled muddied climbers ring in triumph as they come in to rest. On it, reads "I sincerely thought I would never read music but now I can read music. I'm really learning how to play the guitar. I may not be the worlds greatest but I'm definately learning and it feels great - hard but great." The bell rings several times a day. 

Sessions 5 - 6 - Basic Open Chords 
As you come out refreshed and revived from the Session 4 milestone you enter a completely different exciting musical world of chords. New things to learn that sound great. No more "Yankee Doodle" songs. You start really sounding like a guitar player. These are generally easier to conquer and very musically fulfilling - A well deserved rest between what you have come through and what is yet to come. 

Sessions 7 - 8 - Barre Chords 
The key to getting through these tough climbs is to work hard, take it slow, laugh a lot, and to not get stuck. Perseverance is the key here. Everyone thinks they won't make it through these sessions, but the secret is that everyone who doesn't quit will make it through these sessions if they don't stop. 

At the end of Session 8 is the second big visitors center. You have conquered the second big summit - Open Chords & Barre Chords & Major Scales & Keys. Everyone at this stage, gets a free shirt that says "I am now a real guitar player." There is lots of music in the visitor center. Guys playing in local jam sessions, or with friends, or at church. A whole world of musical opportunities have now opened up to you and your playing. 

You try to see back to where you started this journey and can still remember where the car is but you don't want to go back. You're in a new place musically with new possibilities. 

I hope this gives you some perspective on your journey through the "Learning" part of the Learn and Master Guitar Course. 

Keep up the great work. Have a smores! 

- Steve Krenz 

 
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Ok. This is real good to know. I've always had a hard time with this session. Thought it was just me. Thanks for the info!

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Getting ready to head into Session 4, some very helpful advice before.  What are some thoughts on the best way to split this up?  Should I watch the videos and split it up into 5th & 6th String then the Sharps and flat?  Or try to get comfortable with the 5th string and don't move to the 6th until somewhat comfortable with 5th string, then so on?  Would love to hear what worked best for others.

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Here are some tips for Session Four as you begin it...

 

And, here are some tips for Session Four after you've been in it for a while...

 

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Thanks Steve!

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Hey guys, I’m currently on session 4 and have been for around 5 days, trying to learn Minuet in C is tougher than expected but I now have it down albeit with a shaky final bar (I’ve not practiced that as much due to me failing to reach that point for the last few days!).  I’m hoping another couple of days max and I’ll have covered all of the requirements to move on.  Each other session was a day or 2 max so this one has had me worried!  But I think I’m over the worst of it.  I do have a question though...

im not sure how much of this is my ability to read and play what I see on the sheet music, or what I’m just remembering through repetition.  Is that ok?  

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@Funkcanna Hi glad you're here abd welcome to the Guitar Gathering family?.

The LMG course is very comprehensive covering a lot of ground. No need to rush! Take your time, be sure you understand the material and can play and read the notes on the staff accurately before moving on. Use the jam tracks and play along at the prescibed tempo. You are developing skills that you will really need later. 

Enjoy the trip and let us know how you're doing.

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22 hours ago, Funkcanna said:

Hey guys, I’m currently on session 4 and have been for around 5 days, trying to learn Minuet in C is tougher than expected but I now have it down albeit with a shaky final bar (I’ve not practiced that as much due to me failing to reach that point for the last few days!).  I’m hoping another couple of days max and I’ll have covered all of the requirements to move on.  Each other session was a day or 2 max so this one has had me worried!  But I think I’m over the worst of it.  I do have a question though...

im not sure how much of this is my ability to read and play what I see on the sheet music, or what I’m just remembering through repetition.  Is that ok?  

I'm in session 4 and at times I feel exactly the way you do, but part of me (someone can correct me if I'm thinking about this wrong) doesn't think memorizing some of the exercises is all that bad.  By memorizing songs/exercises you are still looking at the notes and associating the correct fingering and tempo and eventually the more exercises you do it will keep building on that past association you have made. You may mess up more at first, but I wasn't long ago I was worried if I was memorizing Yankee Doodle and not reading the music, but I've gotten pretty good (relatively) at recognizing and not getting tripped up by notes on the first 3 strings, so memorizing Yankee Doodle hasn't really hurt me.

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On 1/16/2019 at 6:31 AM, S Bach said:

I'm in session 4 and at times I feel exactly the way you do, but part of me (someone can correct me if I'm thinking about this wrong) doesn't think memorizing some of the exercises is all that bad.  By memorizing songs/exercises you are still looking at the notes and associating the correct fingering and tempo and eventually the more exercises you do it will keep building on that past association you have made. You may mess up more at first, but I wasn't long ago I was worried if I was memorizing Yankee Doodle and not reading the music, but I've gotten pretty good (relatively) at recognizing and not getting tripped up by notes on the first 3 strings, so memorizing Yankee Doodle hasn't really hurt me.

I agree.  I went back to earlier lessons and they were a breeze after session 4 and not even attempting the earlier ones for a while.  

If anyone is interested ive decided to post vids of the sessions.  I know it really helped me seeing people play these on youtube.  Its definitely far from perfect obviously but I thnk im happy for being 3 weeks into the course (2 of which have been spent solely on session4!!) 100% open to feedback!

 

 

Edited by Funkcanna
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I still have a lot of issues with the eighths rests in the bonus workshops string exercises.  When I get a new exercise, they always seem to mess me up and knock me out of rhythm. I know I'll get it down with time, but not sure if this will be something I should have down pat by the end of session 4, or it will take a while for them to become second nature. 

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7 hours ago, S Bach said:

I still have a lot of issues with the eighths rests in the bonus workshops string exercises.  When I get a new exercise, they always seem to mess me up and knock me out of rhythm. I know I'll get it down with time, but not sure if this will be something I should have down pat by the end of session 4, or it will take a while for them to become second nature. 

I’m sticking with the “when to move on” criteria, which doesn’t mention rests, thankfully :)  but I’m with you on that one.  I just try to listen to the actual song and feel the rhythm of the rests at this point.  I can’t look at a sheet of music and play it with the correct rests without hearing it first.  I’m sure it will come though.  If someone told me a month ago I’d be able to read any music whatsoever I’d have called them a liar!

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@Funkcanna Great job with Minuet C!  @S Bach I suggest using a metronome and tapping your foot to help with the timing issues, rests etc. Try for a flowing melodic line once you get the tune "down" . Eventually you" ll be playing this from memory. 

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@Funkcanna doing well with Minuet in C.. remember it's a Waltz type of song so it has a bit swing to it

1/4, 1/8-1/8, 1/8-1/8 per measure almost a triplet .. spoken like tr-pl-et,, 

Well actually,    first beat is longer, than the rest;  so trp-ll-et

 as Neil says.. Session 4 is a very good time to break out the metronome .. yeah I rarely use one.. but you'll need it for future recordings once you get the multitrack recordings like the other members put together in the 'Recording Challenge' Section

 

Edited by Eracer_Team-DougH
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14 hours ago, Eracer_Team-DougH said:

@Funkcanna doing well with Minuet in C.. remember it's a Waltz type of song so it has a bit swing to it

1/4, 1/8-1/8, 1/8-1/8 per measure almost a triplet .. spoken like tr-pl-et,, 

 

 

Hi, thanks for that.  What exactly is swing?  Sorry, I have tried Googling but not entirely sure what it is! :)

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55 minutes ago, Funkcanna said:

Hi, thanks for that.  What exactly is swing?  Sorry, I have tried Googling but not entirely sure what it is! :)

Swing? Well... thats a good question. Musicians are always on the hunt for "it" . A common term among Jazz musicians it refers to a "feel" or gut response to the music and the beat. In the case of Minuet in C , a waltz in 3/4 time, ( rythym count 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3,)the Swing would mean putting emphasis on beat 1 of each bar, as a dancer would in taking a step. In other forms like jazz , the " swing"  comes from emphasis on beats 2 and 4 in 4/4 time, etc.   I hope that makes sense.

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3 hours ago, NeilES335 said:

Swing? Well... thats a good question. Musicians are always on the hunt for "it" . A common term among Jazz musicians it refers to a "feel" or gut response to the music and the beat. In the case of Minuet in C , a waltz in 3/4 time, ( rythym count 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3,)the Swing would mean putting emphasis on beat 1 of each bar, as a dancer would in taking a step. In other forms like jazz , the " swing"  comes from emphasis on beats 2 and 4 in 4/4 time, etc.   I hope that makes sense.

Thanks! Yes that makes perfect sense, much appreciated 

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Yeah swing was a wrong choice of words, but couldn't come up with a 2 3 2 3 feel

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I started working on session 4 today, and after having glanced at the content in the book, and watched the first part of Steve's video, I can now say that I understand what all the fuss is about. This one's going to make me break a sweat, I think. ?

But, you know what? I'm in this thing for the long haul. Even though the challenge is greater than in previous sessions, I'm having a lot of fun. I struggled for a while with sessions 2 and 3, but now they're fairly easy.

Like someone else mentioned, the rests are still causing a bit of confusion with regards to the rhythm, but I'm not letting that hold me back. I'll get hold of a metronome and see if that helps. Currently I'm rocking a bit back and forth while I play, to "feel" the beat.

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13 hours ago, Yggdrasilium said:

 I'll get hold of a metronome and see if that helps. Currently I'm rocking a bit back and forth while I play, to "feel" the beat.

Definitely!  If you haven't gotten a metronome yet, DO IT!  One of the smartest investments you'll make towards improving your timing (and playing).  There are lot's of ways to get one.  There are, of course, stand alone ones.  I have the Planet Waves One, less than $10..  There is also the Online Metronome.  But the one I use the most is the app for my phone, Mobile Metronome Pro.  As you can see, mine is called Pro and I vaguely remember paying a couple bucks for it, probably to get rid of the ads.  But there is a free version.  There are others

Yes, you will be in Session 4 for a while.  What you will find is the Bonus materials are as "beefy", if not more so, than the regular.  Good luck to you!

 

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20 hours ago, Yggdrasilium said:

I started working on session 4 today, and after having glanced at the content in the book, and watched the first part of Steve's video, I can now say that I understand what all the fuss is about. This one's going to make me break a sweat, I think. ?

But, you know what? I'm in this thing for the long haul. Even though the challenge is greater than in previous sessions, I'm having a lot of fun. I struggled for a while with sessions 2 and 3, but now they're fairly easy.

Like someone else mentioned, the rests are still causing a bit of confusion with regards to the rhythm, but I'm not letting that hold me back. I'll get hold of a metronome and see if that helps. Currently I'm rocking a bit back and forth while I play, to "feel" the beat.

I use the Justin Guitar Time Trainer app.  Free download. I started his course a while ago before I started L&M

https://www.justinguitar.com/products/time-trainer-metronome

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That looks good @S Bach, thank you for telling us about it. It has some great training features, the one where it misses a bar will be brilliant!

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I bought myself a metronome (Cherub WSM-240 is the brand and model name) some days ago and I've been working on those tricky exercises in the bonus workshop for session 3 (the ones with the headline of "Ties, dots and rests"). I mentioned earlier that I was having some difficulty keeping the rhythm when quarter and eight rests appears, often in combination with dotted notes.

Well, I have to say that with the metronome I finally got it right!

It's strange, but for some reason I was making the note ring for a shorter duration instead of longer in some cases, if that makes sense. It really threw me off, because I felt that I wasn't playing to the correct rhythm, but couldn't figure out exactly what I was doing wrong. Alright, I learned something new today as well. ?

Thanks for the recommendation!

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