BATTLE OF THE AMPS!?

[Texaspackerfan]

Hello everyone. 

This is for all you guys and gals playing in band.  I've called this post the battle of the amps because of the last gig we played yesterday for a benefit memorial celebration with the proceeds going to a scholarship program for victims of drunk driving. 

Anyway, this has been a ongoing thing for awhile, the other two guitarist/singers fight to hear themselves so they keep turning the amp up tell the thing starts to distort. Which in turn my lead gets totally drowned out (with my volume pedal at full) by about the last half of our songs, so which i have to compensate myself. But of course my amp at a quarter volume would blow the roof apart and totally drown them out, but i choose not to fight this battle because you can see in the look on peoples faces their ears are about to explode from the other two playing rhythm sound loud. i have politely ask them to set the volume and leave it alone but to my avail it never happens. So yesterday to prove a point i refused to turn up my amp so i could take a lead and was given evil looks because they couldn't hear me. Wait, Let me back up a little. I tried to stop this by talking them into letting me run everyone through my PA system which solved it for the house the week before but they were not satisfied, even though i turned their monitors up so they were the one "shinning".  They insisted that the room was to small to need one for this gig yesterday. so, here we go again battle of the amps....argh!!  I just sat there and smiled. i know this wrong but i just refused to play that game. Everyone started listen to us inside and when the battle of the amps began they slowly moved outside one by one. The drummer asked what happened and i just blurted out "They were too loud".  I'm sure I'll catch heat for this one but i was right. should have been more subtle but i just couldn't hold it in.

Has anyone dealt with this before and how did they handle it?

Danny

[Six String]

I've been there and I wish I could give a recipe that would work, but what I will say is that the problem is probably more a tone issue than a volume issue.  A rhythm guitar tone that cuts through the mix at gig volume usually will sound terrible playing at home unless you play with a backing track at pretty high volume all the time.  The converse is a tone that sounds awesome at home, often gets lost in a live mix.  

Try to get them to experiment with boosting the mids, rolling off the bass, treble and gain a bit, instead of turning up the volume and see if that helps.  A drive pedal with a mid boost is another option to explore.

Oh, and for most rock situations two rhythm guitarists is one too many, unless one is playing an acoustic. Just my humble opinion.

 

[gotto]

Great discussion! I have recently been fitted with hearing aids, so I am very much in tune with what loud can do to your hearing. 3 years ago, I had a hearing test whereby my left ear exhibited profound high frequency loss and the right ear was very mild in that range of loss. My recent test demonstrated profound loss in both ears. In that 3 year span, I played in a group in which the other guitarist was blisteringly loud and I was positioned to our drummers direct left so he could watch my rhythm play to help guide the bottom end.  I attribute both of those factors to having destroyed the right inner ear cilia responsive to high freguency. My BIL is very loud with the sticks. That said, the volume was so loud overall, I had to turn up my high watt amp (just to hear it), after trying lower wattage amps and being unable to hear them ( even when positioned closely and directly in front of it), because of the overall noise level. I left practices deafened, finally getting custom earplugs, but the damage was done.

I am now working on a light electric/acoustic trio (still working with a reorganized bigger band also) and the difference is amazing. We hear each other ( with 3 guitars!) and leave practice without hearing normal and unimpaired. In my big full band ( 2 guitars) I am now far removed from my amp and less concerned about hearing my rhythm as I can clearly follow the bass lines of our bassist and the lead guitarist( a different player than the past) is tasteful and has figured out how to dial in the correct lead volumes. If anything, he was too quiet to begin with, a rarity with my previous band experiences. It is a pleasure to play in sync with members who can figure out dynamics. The recent street crowd on the 4th gig was very complimentary on our volumes. It is always a work in progress however. 

Best of luck on this TPF. Save your ears!

Greg

Edited July 16, 2018 by gotto

[John Wells]

Danny, if you're the sound engineer for your group, use a compressor in the sound system and turn the level up to clip the overly loud volume. A compressor will also facilitate the singer and let her voice be heard along with the guitarists. If you're not familiar with compressors or don't have one,  there's a good youtube video called compressors 101. The amp battlers must be immature jackals. Lotsa luck.

[Oldjock]

A band's success is dependent on team work. Each plays a small part to provide a finished song for the entertainment of others. I think that if I was in your position, with band mates pushing their own agenda, I would be looking for a new band.

Harsh, but that's the way I see it. If I'm not having fun, bye bye.

Henk

[Randy120]

@Texaspackerfan You are correct. I spoke to a bass player who played in bands for decades. He said the volume on stage should be low enough to hear each other speak. Running through the PA is the way to go. Playing too loud is unprofessional. 

Peter Thorn has an article in Premier Guitar below.

Turn It Down

[Texaspackerfan]

Thank you all for your comments.  I think I have them convinced that we are struggling not only to hear our playing but everyone else.  My drummer is on board and promised to tone it down as well(wait, a drummer said he would tone it down?!! lol). I think doing an unplugged gig the other day help.  We could hear and no one got lost, and we sounded good. 

Danny