Jump to content

"Perfect" 4th, 5th...


NeilES335

Recommended Posts


  • Member ID:  5
  • Group:  Members
  • Followers:  6
  • Topic Count:  65
  • Topics Per Day:  0.03
  • Content Count:  1,076
  • Content Per Day:  0.47
  • Reputation:   962
  • Achievement Points:  0
  • Solved Content:  0
  • Days Won:  166
  • Joined:  01/04/2018
  • Status:  Offline
  • Last Seen:  
  • Device:  Windows

Ok all you theory buffs out there... here's today's music trivia question:

Why are the 4th and 5th degrees of the scale called  "Perfect" ? 

In what context was this term devised and/or evolve?  (No need to get too technical...) 

@Steve Krenz Maybe you'd like to chime in on this one!

Happy confusing terms everyone!

Neil

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Member ID:  1
  • Group:  Administrators
  • Followers:  29
  • Topic Count:  95
  • Topics Per Day:  0.04
  • Content Count:  428
  • Content Per Day:  0.19
  • Reputation:   637
  • Achievement Points:  0
  • Solved Content:  0
  • Days Won:  115
  • Joined:  12/28/2017
  • Status:  Offline
  • Last Seen:  
  • Birthday:  07/28/1966
  • Device:  Macintosh

The short answer from me is.... I have no idea!

- Steve

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Member ID:  5
  • Group:  Members
  • Followers:  6
  • Topic Count:  65
  • Topics Per Day:  0.03
  • Content Count:  1,076
  • Content Per Day:  0.47
  • Reputation:   962
  • Achievement Points:  0
  • Solved Content:  0
  • Days Won:  166
  • Joined:  01/04/2018
  • Status:  Offline
  • Last Seen:  
  • Device:  Windows

8 minutes ago, Steve Krenz said:

The short answer from me is.... I have no idea!

- Steve

I'll wait and see if someone knows.... I do "sort of " know... it's in the little theory book I'm reading called "Music Theory 101" .

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Member ID:  146
  • Group:  Members
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  1
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  243
  • Content Per Day:  0.11
  • Reputation:   261
  • Achievement Points:  0
  • Solved Content:  0
  • Days Won:  19
  • Joined:  01/09/2018
  • Status:  Offline
  • Last Seen:  
  • Device:  Macintosh

I will take a guess: in the major and minor scales we have different major and minor 2nd, 3rd, 6th and 7th notes. The root, 4th and 5th are the same in both major and minor scales so that is why I guess they are called perfect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Member ID:  9
  • Group:  Moderators
  • Followers:  11
  • Topic Count:  65
  • Topics Per Day:  0.03
  • Content Count:  813
  • Content Per Day:  0.36
  • Reputation:   1,006
  • Achievement Points:  1
  • Solved Content:  0
  • Days Won:  209
  • Joined:  01/04/2018
  • Status:  Offline
  • Last Seen:  
  • Birthday:  01/01/1953
  • Device:  Macintosh

From what I've read, the concept of "perfect" intervals dates back to at least the Pythagoreans. They were familiar with the particular consonance of a string divided by ratios of 1:1 (perfect unison), 1:2 (perfect octave),  4:3 (perfect fourth), and 3:2 (perfect fifth). I will leave discussion of equal temperament and the Pythagorean comma to more informed scholars!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Member ID:  15
  • Group:  Members
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  22
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  239
  • Content Per Day:  0.11
  • Reputation:   185
  • Achievement Points:  0
  • Solved Content:  0
  • Days Won:  12
  • Joined:  01/06/2018
  • Status:  Offline
  • Last Seen:  
  • Birthday:  11/12/1962

They re labeled prefect because the sound quality is much different from the other intervals . (  Prefect ) short answer ,

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Member ID:  10
  • Group:  Members
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  30
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  309
  • Content Per Day:  0.14
  • Reputation:   256
  • Achievement Points:  0
  • Solved Content:  0
  • Days Won:  36
  • Joined:  01/04/2018
  • Status:  Offline
  • Last Seen:  
  • Device:  Windows

Intervals

Distance between two notes. There are consonant intervals and dissonant intervals. They’re divided into two categories based on acoustic properties. The consonances are actually divided into two groups themselves.

Perfect Consonances

- Unisons

- Octaves

- Fifths

- Fourths

The math and tunings of these intervals work out perfectly. That’s why the Fourths & Fifths are called “Perfect.”

Imperfect Consonances

- Thirds

- Sixths

They can be slightly sharp or flat. The math didn’t work out perfectly for those intervals, but they're still consonances.

Dissonances

- Seconds

- Sevenths

- Diminished

- Augmented

The study of consonance and dissonance, and music in general, is crucial to understanding how music works. Classical composers were very careful about how they introduced dissonance and how they resolved it. The study of this is called counterpoint.

 

Edited by V7#5b9
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Member ID:  15
  • Group:  Members
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  22
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  239
  • Content Per Day:  0.11
  • Reputation:   185
  • Achievement Points:  0
  • Solved Content:  0
  • Days Won:  12
  • Joined:  01/06/2018
  • Status:  Offline
  • Last Seen:  
  • Birthday:  11/12/1962

The Augmented 4th  known as the ( Devils Note ) was banned from church music . It's sound was hard to sing to and was thought to lead to lewd Behavior. It was a ugly note to use in Church. But later reused by Jazz players and called the Flattened Fifth. Mostly used to day as the note used in sirens. So when you hear that sound when you get pulled over. and feel uneasy thats why. They hit a nerve. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

  • Member ID:  2
  • Group:  Members
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  6
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  155
  • Content Per Day:  0.07
  • Reputation:   85
  • Achievement Points:  0
  • Solved Content:  0
  • Days Won:  2
  • Joined:  01/03/2018
  • Status:  Offline
  • Last Seen:  
  • Device:  Macintosh

A perfect interval remains a perfect interval when inverted. So a perfect 4th becomes a perfect 5th when inverted and vice versa. The unison intervals are called perfect primes and octave intervals are perfect octaves.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 9 months later...

  • Member ID:  2
  • Group:  Members
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  6
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  155
  • Content Per Day:  0.07
  • Reputation:   85
  • Achievement Points:  0
  • Solved Content:  0
  • Days Won:  2
  • Joined:  01/03/2018
  • Status:  Offline
  • Last Seen:  
  • Device:  Macintosh

On 3/3/2019 at 10:13 PM, Cindy said:

A perfect interval remains a perfect interval when inverted. So a perfect 4th becomes a perfect 5th when inverted and vice versa. The unison intervals are called perfect primes and octave intervals are perfect octaves.

I should have elaborated a little more on this. When a diminished interval is inverted, it becomes augmented. And when an augmented interval is inverted, it becomes diminished. And it's the same way with major and minor intervals. A major interval becomes minor when inverted and vice versa. But a perfect interval when inverted remains a perfect interval.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Chatbox

    You don't have permission to chat.
    Load More

About us

Guitar Gathering is a community of guitar lovers of all types and skill levels.  This is a place of learning, support and encouragement.  We are unapologetically positive.

If you've come here to gripe, demean others or talk politics then this isn't the place for you.

But if you've come to talk guitars, ask questions and learn from professionals and guitar learners from all over the world then come on in!

Get in touch

Follow us

facebook feed

Recent tweets

×
×
  • Create New...