repair Choosing a Luthier for a Setup / Work - Great Experience or Disaster?

[FThomas]

How do we go about selecting a guitar shop / luthier to perform a setup or other work?

This is a decision that can either go great or have unexpected serious negative consequences!!!

Taylor Customer Service recommended that I play my new guitar a while before having a setup done.  That was wise counsel that I should have heeded!  I failed!  That is good advice regardless of who manufactured your guitar.  

I selected a shop that has been in business for 45 years and is a Taylor dealer to go over a new Taylor 814ce Dlx very carefully .  What I was left with is heartbreaking and unimaginable.  I had asked that they go over it carefully and wanted the string height at the 12th fret to between the Taylor recommended .080 and .090.  A pretty small margin.  This is my FIRST expensive guitar.  I now have to go through unbelievable inconvenience and expense to even get the guitar back to Taylor specifications.

A setup on a new guitar should NOT require major modifications, but small adjustments on the trifecta +1 of Action: 

• Neck Relief
• String Height at the 12th Fret
• String Height at the Nut
• Taylor Guitars also have shims in the neck that can be changed to impact action  

With minor adjustments major improvements can be delivered.  BUT, the one doing the work has to be professional and ethical.  I believe that any ethical guitar repair shop / Luthier would not deliver substandard work and if they made a mistake they should let you know, correct it and not hide it under the saddle!

Let my experience be a cautionary tale about how you go about selecting a Luthier to make repairs or do a setup on your prized guitar.  A setup should only require small adjustments to the specific areas above.  In the case of a Taylor things are done a little differently because of the Taylor NT Neck with the Taylor neck shims.  Like me, you have a lot invested regardless of the price of the guitar.  Money invested is one thing, but we have time, effort and emotions connected to the guitar we selected to purchase and play regardless if it is new, used or we have been playing it for a long time.   We love our prized guitar!  

Don't end up in my situation!  Choose who works on your guitar wisely! 

Pictures of the saddle modified by ----------------------- on a new Taylor 814ce Dlx

 

I cannot take a picture of the G string hanging at the nut and popping loudly when it releases when it is tuned up or down.  This makes it impossible to tune!

-------------------------------------- delivered a guitar with a shim under the High E and B string and a G string that is hanging in the nut making it almost impossible to tune.   If you tune the G string down it hangs and the pops loudly at the nut.  If you try and tune it up the G string hangs in the nut and the pops loudly.  I have been absolutely devastated  by the unprofessional, unethical and unacceptable work they performed.  When I got home (overseas) the guitar had no tone, projection or sustain.   I was in denial, but after three weeks I could not take it anymore and pulled the saddle to compare it to a new Taylor saddle.   What I found was extremely upsetting!
 

Edited December 13, 2018 by FThomas
The owner of the shop sent an email apologizing and asking for forgiveness. It is incumbent on me to accept his apology and offer genuine forgiveness.

[John Wells]

I cannot imagine Taylor Customer Service making such a rash statement. I have a 712-CE that's at least twelve years old and I've never had to have any work done on it, and I change my own strings. The intonation was perfect when I bought it and remains so to this day. It's opened up nicely through the years. The only setup that might be needed would be to change string gauges, and I don't anticipate that. If ever I think it needs work, I'll ship it back to Taylor and have them do it at the factory. And I have a 700 series. If I had an 800 series, I'd certainly send it back for luthier work. Being a Taylor distributor doesn't say beans about their luthier. Just had one thought, if I lived close to Nashville, I might take it to Gruhn Guitars. But I don't. Lotsa luck. 

Edited December 11, 2018 by John Wells

[Eracer_Team-DougH]

Needless to say, doesn't sound like would return to the shop to "fix" their repair. 

I would do 2 things 

1-Contact Taylor see what they could do for you, they may want it sent back to them for repair.

2- contact Greg Voros at Gruhn's,  he's a long time "buddy" to Guitar Gathering,  and more than capable of repairing anything. 

 

Yes both will cost you money, but you don't have a $100 Walmart guitar either

[FThomas]

On 12/11/2018 at 9:57 PM, John Wells said:

I cannot imagine Taylor Customer Service making such a rash statement. I have a 712-CE that's at least twelve years old and I've never had to have any work done on it, and I change my own strings. The intonation was perfect when I bought it and remains so to this day. It's opened up nicely through the years. The only setup that might be needed would be to change string gauges, and I don't anticipate that. If ever I think it needs work, I'll ship it back to Taylor and have them do it at the factory. And I have a 700 series. If I had an 800 series, I'd certainly send it back for luthier work. Being a Taylor distributor doesn't say beans about their luthier. Just had one thought, if I lived close to Nashville, I might take it to Gruhn Guitars. But I don't. Lotsa luck. 

It wasn't Taylor who stated that a shim like this was normal!!!

The initial email to me by the shop stated it was normal and that I had accepted the guitar and it was my problem.  He made the comment:  "I hope you have better luck next time."

Edited December 14, 2018 by FThomas
Forgiveness

[Randy120]

@FThomas I do my own setups on my guitars. I learned from the Greg Voros' Guitar Setup and Maintenance DVD and a few other videos from the internet. Acoustic guitars need string changes, cleaning, good humidity, and the occasional truss rod adjustment. The only thing I need a luthier for is real repairs.

Taylor's are different. String height (action) is not adjusted at the saddle and nut. The NT neck has two shims at the body to adjust height and angle. I have two Taylor guitars. I own a GS Mini and a NS24ce nylon string. I wanted to lower the action, but I didn't think the saddle should be shaved as recommended by some. Luckily, we have Pat Diburro a highly rated luthier who only works on Taylor, Martin, and Collings guitars in the area. I took the guitars to him to lower the action. He asked me if the guitars had the original strings? I told him the guitars are 5 years old and I do my own setups. He recommended I continue doing the same, and he even complemented me on the way I tied the nylon strings. He said the action could be a little lower. He lowered the action on the GS Mini the NT way by changing the shims at the neck, and it took less than 5 minutes without changing of the strings. He told me if I had shaved the saddle then he would have needed to install a new saddle. He found a small defect in my NS24ce body which he said was "delaminating...and it would get worse" which was a warranty repair. I left the NS24ce with him. A few weeks later he sent me an e-mail. Taylor had sent a new base level body, but he rejected it because it wasn't equal in quality to the original. Taylor then sent an upgraded body. He transferred the electronics from the original body to the new one, and put on new strings. When I got the repaired guitar home I checked the nylon string and found he tied the nylon strings just the way I did. I would consider Pat DiBurro a top quality luthier and this is the kind of service you should expect.

As for your guitar it seems you did not get good service. It seems from your description the repair person shaved the saddle which is not Taylor recommended service. There are no shims under the saddle. Unfortunately, I think your best course of action is to send the guitar directly to Taylor. If all it needs is a new saddle then the cost should not be too expensive. Your Taylor 800 series guitar is an expensive instrument so it is worth spending the money.  

[Randy120]

 

 

[Eracer_Team-DougH]

It would appear that Mr Sand is not good with customer relations. 

I question how he's been in business so long like that.

I know if I paid for something and wasn't satisfied the all the shops here would say. Bring it back, what do you think it needs

Edited December 13, 2018 by Eracer_Team-DougH

[Eracer_Team-DougH]

 

 

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We do everything in guitar repair from re-stringing, set-ups and adjustments, to complete restorations of Vintage instruments. We receive instruments for repair from all over the world

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Hmmm

Like I said contact Taylor or Greg @ GruhnGruhn's 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Eracer_Team-DougH

[Randy120]

@Eracer_Team-DougH I think it needs a new saddle and no shims under the saddle. Of course he may have screwed up the nut also. Too many people think they should adjust nut height. Greg Voros recommends you leave the nut alone. I am sure Taylor can put it back to specification, but it will cost him. 

@FThomas You should bring this dealer to the attention of Taylor. They are incompetent at best. 

[Eracer_Team-DougH]

I'm pretty sure your right.. probably sanded and shimmed the bridge and nut.. which is not unusual if you're trying to lower the string height on a 'normal' acoustic.

he says he's getting pinging when tuning.. so we know the nut slots are too tight and not wide enough (note.. I said wide. not low)

 

 

[FThomas]

On 12/13/2018 at 7:40 AM, Eracer_Team-DougH said:

I'm pretty sure your right.. probably sanded and shimmed the bridge and nut.. which is not unusual if you're trying to lower the string height on a 'normal' acoustic.

he says he's getting pinging when tuning.. so we know the nut slots are too tight and not wide enough (note.. I said wide. not low)

 

 

Wow!  Thanks to Mr. Glen Wolff - Manager of Customer Service at Taylor USA and also Mr. Michel Gambini at Taylor Amsterdam I am hopefully on a course to resolve this mess!  I have a meeting with a Taylor trained technician at RJ Guitars - Philippines tomorrow morning.  Of course, everything is out of pocket and they do not have the new replacement nut that is used on the 800 series V Class.  So that will have to be ordered from the States and shipped here.  The nut is not expensive in and of itself, but the shipping costs can be US $ 50.00 plus Value Added Tax and Customs Clearance if using FedEx or DHL or US $25.00 plus if I use a air freight forwarder who consolidates shipments to Manila, which adds two weeks to delivery time AFTER the air freight forwarder receives it.

Not a good experience at all.  To say that I am stressed is an understatement!  I am absolutely devastated!  I am sure there is some anger under all of the emotions I'm feeling, but that has not been how I have acted or responded.  When I spoke with Mr. Michel Gambini, Taylor Guitar, last night I was finally brought to tears.  I did not realize how deeply this has been affecting me until then.  

I received a second email apologizing and asking for. forgiveness.  As a Christian I accept his apology and I forgive them unconditionally. It does not mean I forget nor does it provide any relief.  I am surprised at his major change in attitude. 

 

Edited December 14, 2018 by FThomas

[Nutty 1]

Thank you for telling us about this Fred, I am so sorry that this has happened to your lovely guitar.

I have come across other guitar set up/repair tales of horror on the internet and this makes me a bit wary of taking any of mine to a luthier that I know nothing about. I too have the Greg Voros' Guitar Setup and Maintenance DVD set (it is marketed under the Learn & Master" label and I highly recommend it.

I hope that you get your guitar sorted out. Really, the shop that messed it up should have to pay a real Luthier to fix it. 

Edit - I have just read your post above that came out while I was typing. I am keeping my fingers crossed for you. It looks like Taylor are on the case, hopefully this nightmare will end soon. Perhaps you can copy that email from Mr Sand to them as it is an admission of culpability. There is no way that you should have to pay for the repair.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Nutty 1

[Nutty 1]

If Taylor do charge you for the repair you should send Mr Sand the bill and ask him to settle it up with you.

[Randy120]

@FThomas I think and hope he made no change to the nut at all. He may have thrown on "some strings" instead of the specific Elixir strings which Taylor uses. The right strings with a little Nut Juice to lubricate may solve any binding issue at the nut. It seems the saddle will need to be replaced. Taylor's service is excellent, and you may find the tech can fix the problem in 30 minutes. Good luck I hope it works out for you. 

[Six String]

An 814ce comes with a black graphite nut and micarta bridge.   Should be able to have either or both replaced locally by a competent luthier.

Some would argue a bone nut would be an upgrade.

I understand the frustration of the long distance situation and dismissive customer service, but the guitar only needs relatively minor fixes to be ready for decades of making music.

Try to look on the bright side that the guitar has not been permanently ruined.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Six String

[FThomas]

I am delighted to give a very positive update.  I met with the Technician from RJ Guitars and he was very professional and thorough.  The G string was hanging on the top of the slot and working it up and down solved the hanging problem. 

He felt that the nut had possibly been modified,  but the 1sr fret string clearance is OK.   

He studied the original saddle and believes that it had been sanded to far on one end and the shim was an attempt to fix a mistake.   He said the correct fix is a new saddle, which it has now. 

He thoroughly went through the neck alignment, string height and ES2 system and I decided to leave it as is.  It doesn't play butter smooth like I had hoped, but I can live with it. 

Happy to put this behind me. 

[Nutty 1]

That is good news Fred, I am glad that your guitar is playable again.

[FThomas]

43 minutes ago, Nutty 1 said:

That is good news Fred, I am glad that your guitar is playable again.

Nutty 1 Thanks!

Thank you all for the comments and moral support.   Taylor has been awesome and I am very thankful this chapter can close on a positive!  

As a reminder, not that one is really needed, but we need to be careful who we trust or much loved guitars to!

Merry Christmas from the Philippines!

[Randy120]

Good news!

You should get Greg Voros' Setup and Maintenance DVD then you would know more than most guitars techs. A few inexpensive tools and you can do it yourself. A small tube of Big Bends Nut Sauce will probably cure any binding at the nut, and I use it every time I change my strings.

[FThomas]

Actually I have the DVD, but was reluctant to tackle anything on a new 814ce Dlx.  I can livewith the less than optimum action.  It will get sorted out in due time

 

Happy New Year!

On 12/14/2018 at 10:18 PM, Randy120 said:

Good news!

You should get Greg Voros' Setup and Maintenance DVD then you would know more than most guitars techs. A few inexpensive tools and you can do it yourself. A small tube of Big Bends Nut Sauce will probably cure any binding at the nut, and I use it every time I change my strings.

 

[Randy120]

@FThomas As I stated in my previous post you can't adjust the action on your Taylor with the method on Greg's DVD. You have to have a Taylor trained tech change the shims for the Taylor NT neck. All the other info on Greg's DVD applies to you Taylor and any other acoustic guitar.