Improvising

[Popeye]

I have wrestled with this topic at times and heard discussions here on the Forum. I just read this from Griff Hamlin and thought it was worth passing along.

 

Imagine you have to give a speech to a roomful of people who are all watching you to see what you will say...   I don't know about you but for most people that pretty much puts them in instant panic mode!   But let's say that you found out 2 weeks ahead of time that you were going to give this speech... and it was going to be at your best friend's wedding so you had some time...   Would you prepare something or would you just "wing it" and just make something up when they called your name?   My money is on you preparing something ahead of time... just how much you prepare depends on how comfortable you are speaking in front of a bunch of people you don't really know.   Now let's think about that for a quick sec... you're talking, right? Speaking your native language using words and phrases you've known and used for your whole life (well, most of it....)   So you should be TOTALLY comfortable with that... why should you need to prepare anything?   And if you need to prepare something simply to speak, then how would it be possible to just make up something on your guitar unless you were as comfortable with music as you are with speaking?   That, my friend, is the biggest myth I've ever seen when it comes to playing guitar - that you can just somehow "make it up as you go along."   Or as I like to say - "improvising really isn't..."   Even Miles Davis (yes... that Miles Davis, the famous trumpet player) said in an interview I read that most of the stuff he plays isn't really improvised but is really ideas he came up with before that he re-uses.   And I've heard Clapton and many other guitar players say the same thing... if you want to play the blues you start by re-stating what has come before you first. Then you turn it into your own thing once you've really got it down.   But the biggest key is to learn it well - start to finish. Just finish something and learn it well.   The journey of that will be worth more than the destination, I promise.    Talk soon, Griff   Take Care, Mike

[V7#5b9]

Griff has excellent blog entries. He even has a course on how to improvise blues solos. But, improvisation is more of a jazz domain. Head over to the Music Theory section and check out Improvising Over Chord Changes.

[Triple-o]

Interesting subject.

Two weeks ago I might have agreed with Mr Hamlin, but I am beginning to realize that playing the Blues or Jazz is all about knowing the “subject”.

Take the best friends wedding speech.To get up and start talking could be difficult  if you didn’t know the subject or are lacking basic story telling skills.Like having a beginning, middle and end. And not using vocal “expressions”. But, wedding speeches do have a subject matter. Relationships, family, love and life.

The First 4 bars could be about “ How they met” “Your relation to them”  and “Happiness”, the next two bars can cover “friends family and guests”. The next two bars might  be about “ how the couple are like two peas in a pod” the next 4 bars could weave in and out about compatibility, being soul mates, and the bright future that awaits them. The conclusion could be  a toast.

Assuming you don’t talk in a “monotone voice”  and use “dynamics” and you “breath” it probably would sound like you were prepared, because you knew two  things, the subject matter and the basics of public speaking.

Granted, if you google wedding speeches and just change some names it might be easier. But, it wouldn’t have the emotions and nuances of a personal relationship with the couple.

I think music is an “abstract art form  ” with sound as it’s medium.So, could just mix up someone else’s measures or even tweek  a few phrases. Heck, you could  even change the songs title.

In blues and jazz music there’s always a subject, the chord progressions. It could be A D E or G C D or C D G or Bb Eb Ab etc. So, for someone who is really knowledgeable about the those “subjects.” Yes, I think they could get up and play.

Some  older player started out playing fresh material and later in life started “Taking the Easy Way Out .”Eventually becoming, what Lester Young Called   “Repeater Pencils.” Infact, later in life he became one.

Music, in some ways is like the lottery.There are many choices, or you could just play your birthday numbers.

 

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[Blue Dog]

Well i think its a lot more to it then that. Because you cant  give a speech at a wedding in the style of the Blues or Jazz. Rock or country maybe. Blues more like a speech at a  AA meeting. Jazz a happy speech at a AA meeting.  

If you stay on topic and in the realm of the progression. and the mood of the song. you should be able to give a great speech. Just dont think that the people listening is hard of hearing and repeat  the some old tune over and over again.

In the world great player come up with great pieces  and people just dont like them so they have to play what sells. they go and see him play what they like . and players give them what they want. that causes the repeater pencil. A preacher dont go off topic on sunday. Does that make him a Repeater pencil He changes the speech but its the same old song and Dance.

So there is a lot more to it then just a speech. It s the emotions of the speech. and topic. That picks what"s played.

[Triple-o]

I can see that trying to write something Clever has backfired. Here is a translation of what I was trying to say. “Improvising is like speaking off the cuff, which is easy enough when you know your topic well.  Knowing the chord progression is like knowing your topic”. Jane Miller, guitarist, professor at Berklee College of Music

 

[V7#5b9]

32 minutes ago, Triple-o said:

I can see that trying to write something Clever has backfired. Here is a translation of what I was trying to say. “Improvising is like speaking off the cuff, which is easy enough when you know your topic well.  Knowing the chord progression is like knowing your topic”. Jane Miller, guitarist, professor at Berklee College of Music

 

You still need to know the language, its grammar and vocabulary. Even when you speak off the cuff you repeat phrases you have used many times before. You seldom come up with something completely original. The speech may sound original, but not its components. The same is true of musical improvisation.

If you listen to your favourite players really carefully, you will begin to hear similar licks repeating throughout their solos. This is not immediately obvious because these players manipulate their phrasing, rhythm and feel very well. After all, there are only 12 notes available. The only logical conclusion is that it is rhythm, phrasing, dynamics and articulation that make the difference. In a blues guitar solo where you may be playing only 5 or 6 different notes, it is even more evident. It’s very much a case of when and how you play, not what you play.

[Triple-o]

This Jazz language concept hasn’t made sense to me yet. I find it strange every Jazz book I pick up talks about it, but none has  dedicated even one sentence to expand on

One university Jazz teacher said he couldn’t define it. He was concerned because all his students sounded the same, because they spend all their time copying Jazz legends. Another teacher quoted Lennie Tristram “don’t let an over emphasis on language limit self expression,make music your own.

 I read about a medical study  where two jazz musicians  were “trading fours” while one was in an MRI machine. It clearly showed that they used parts of their brain that are triggered by a spoken language, but not a tied to a spoken meaning. Oh yea, he was using a plastic keyboard and the  medical facility was John Hopkins.

 One thing I know for sure. I can’t order a pizza speaking Jazz.

[V7#5b9]

2 hours ago, Triple-o said:

This Jazz language concept hasn’t made sense to me yet. I find it strange every Jazz book I pick up talks about it, but none has  dedicated even one sentence to expand on

One university Jazz teacher said he couldn’t define it. He was concerned because all his students sounded the same, because they spend all their time copying Jazz legends. Another teacher quoted Lennie Tristram “don’t let an over emphasis on language limit self expression,make music your own.

 I read about a medical study  where two jazz musicians  were “trading fours” while one was in an MRI machine. It clearly showed that they used parts of their brain that are triggered by a spoken language, but not a tied to a spoken meaning. Oh yea, he was using a plastic keyboard and the  medical facility was John Hopkins.

 One thing I know for sure. I can’t order a pizza speaking Jazz.

Well then… I guess it doesn’t matter if I say that Richie Zellon does expand on the language concept.

I’ll give you a few examples. Cells and/or motifs can be grouped and developed into phrases. A cadence in music syntax is the equivalent to a sentence in spoken language. Several cadences chained together form a musical paragraph. Cadences can be classified as weak or strong, a weak cadence is like a comma, a strong cadence is like a period.

Richie himself admits that college failed to teach him how to improvise. That’s why he had to take lessons from the pros. As a result, he is not only a better jazz improviser, but also a better jazz guitar teacher.

If a teacher just tells you to use and experiment with the mixolydian mode over a dominant 7th chord without further explanation, you will have a hard time developing a coherent line. On the other hand, if you learn the jazz language, you will be able to develop a coherent line from scratch.

I suppose music colleges do a better job these days, but if a student just learns the same licks as others, and uses a plug-and-play idea without developing his or her own ideas and style, he or she will sound like all the other students.

Anyway, I wouldn’t order a pizza speaking jazz, either.