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Session 4 - Eight Notes


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1 hour ago, Yggdrasilium said:

I bought myself a metronome (Cherub WSM-240 is the brand and model name) some days ago and I've been working on those tricky exercises in the bonus workshop for session 3 (the ones with the headline of "Ties, dots and rests"). I mentioned earlier that I was having some difficulty keeping the rhythm when quarter and eight rests appears, often in combination with dotted notes.

Well, I have to say that with the metronome I finally got it right!

It's strange, but for some reason I was making the note ring for a shorter duration instead of longer in some cases, if that makes sense. It really threw me off, because I felt that I wasn't playing to the correct rhythm, but couldn't figure out exactly what I was doing wrong. Alright, I learned something new today as well. ?

Thanks for the recommendation!

Your on the right track! Great!  I confess I didnt use a 'nome for a long time, (I still have to remember to get it going) I think I have pretty good "internal timing" , but using the 'nome recently sharpens up your tempo.

A side benefit of using Reaper DAW to practice with, is the Metronome feature, which will play along with you in record or playback mode. I found this challenging yet very helpful to get the timing just right.

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On 1/20/2019 at 8:37 AM, Eracer_Team-DougH said:

@Funkcanna doing well with Minuet in C.. remember it's a Waltz type of song so it has a bit swing to it

1/4, 1/8-1/8, 1/8-1/8 per measure almost a triplet .. spoken like tr-pl-et,, 

Well actually,    first beat is longer, than the rest;  so trp-ll-et

 as Neil says.. Session 4 is a very good time to break out the metronome .. yeah I rarely use one.. but you'll need it for future recordings once you get the multitrack recordings like the other members put together in the 'Recording Challenge' Section

 

Yes this is where I introduced myself to the Nome on a more consistent basis. I hated it at first but like with everything else in this journey the 3 P's are a virtue. I can say it surely helped me out especially where the rests come in too play.

 

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On 1/19/2019 at 7:47 AM, Funkcanna said:

I agree.  I went back to earlier lessons and they were a breeze after session 4 and not even attempting the earlier ones for a while.  

If anyone is interested ive decided to post vids of the sessions.  I know it really helped me seeing people play these on youtube.  Its definitely far from perfect obviously but I thnk im happy for being 3 weeks into the course (2 of which have been spent solely on session4!!) 100% open to feedback!

 

Funkcanna, That is a Great Job. It appears you are doing very well in a short period of time, keep up the Good Work. I would say Relax and take your time, obviously you are not having any trouble Retaining the Information so just make sure you go thru the Bonus Workshop Manual and when you are comfortable with that material, move along to the next session. Keep us Updated, and Your Video Quality is Top Notch also.

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Funkcanna: In answer to your question "What is swing?" I'm a guitar beginner like you (lesson 3), but I'm an experienced djembe and dunun drum player in the West African Mande tradition. When we use our priceless metronomes (regardless of beats per minute) and play in exact time with the beep, click or light, we are playing the music "straight" or "on the beat." We can crowd the notes by playing slightly earlier, or "ahead of the beat." This gives the music more drive, more energy. Makes you want to get up and dance. We are still in time, but there is wiggle room there. Music is a touchy feelie creation. We can slightly delay the note and play "behind the beat." This makes the music feel relaxing. Different combinations of this create "swing," a lovely feel.

If we go too far either way we are early or late, provoking disapproval from fellow performers and listeners. :-)

One interesting effect is when multiple instrumental parts played "straight" combine to form the feeling of swing. This happens a lot with West African polyrhythms. I look forward to exploring this effect in guitar music. I don't have formal musical training, so I don't know correct terminology. However, I can make a rhythm shwang! Hope this helps. We are early in our guitar journey for making music swing, but as Steve and the rest say, we will get there!

Edited by pkotof
corrected terminology to ahead of beat and behind the beat
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Hi All, 

I tested myself today and feel pretty ready to start session 4 today, after a return to practicing for about 2 weeks after a month or so of slacking off.  I've been doing some reading in the forum and understand that I need to split this session up.  I actually have a question about resources though.  I've obtained the first book in the Hal Leonard series that Mr. Krenz recommends, and I have also been working from the Song Hits (of which I am on session 3).  I feel like I have a lot of material to work from now and want to go through it all at once, but know that's not realistic, yet I always feel that I am practicing one song at the expense of another.  Has anyone else had a similar experience?

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5 hours ago, costancr said:

Hi All, 

I tested myself today and feel pretty ready to start session 4 today, after a return to practicing for about 2 weeks after a month or so of slacking off.  I've been doing some reading in the forum and understand that I need to split this session up.  I actually have a question about resources though.  I've obtained the first book in the Hal Leonard series that Mr. Krenz recommends, and I have also been working from the Song Hits (of which I am on session 3).  I feel like I have a lot of material to work from now and want to go through it all at once, but know that's not realistic, yet I always feel that I am practicing one song at the expense of another.  Has anyone else had a similar experience?

@costancr Yes, I often have the same feeling. While working on blues and rock resources these days, I would also like to be working on fingerstyle. And there are so many songs and solo's waiting for me to learn...

The way I deal with this is by setting long time goals. After finishing L&M Guitar last year, I planned to take about a year to learn blues and rock. That should take me to August 2019. For fingerstyle, I plan about 18 months, so that will take me to the beginning of 2021.

It's a rough plan, and I mostly underestimate the time required to learn something. But the long term perspective helps me focus and deal with the feeling that I should be working on all those resources at the same time.

Wim.

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5 hours ago, costancr said:

Hi All, 

I tested myself today and feel pretty ready to start session 4 today, after a return to practicing for about 2 weeks after a month or so of slacking off.  I've been doing some reading in the forum and understand that I need to split this session up.  I actually have a question about resources though.  I've obtained the first book in the Hal Leonard series that Mr. Krenz recommends, and I have also been working from the Song Hits (of which I am on session 3).  I feel like I have a lot of material to work from now and want to go through it all at once, but know that's not realistic, yet I always feel that I am practicing one song at the expense of another.  Has anyone else had a similar experience?

Its tempting to work on several things at once. However at your stage I recommend you stick to mostly the course material and maybe Song Hits or the Hal Leonard book. That is plenty. S4 as I recall is a big session which could keep you occupied for a while (several weeks of maybe months) Dont overextend yourself. Keep it simple and you will come out ahead in the end.

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@NeilES335 @Wim VD1  Thank you for the responses!  I think my current plan is to continue on with the course as normal and practice the song hits thoroughly, especially since I haven't started on chords in the Learn and Master Guitar course.  Since the first batch of songs in the Hal Leonard book seem to be somewhat simple I'll use that as sight-reading practice.  

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Hi Constancr. I'm with you in Session 4. I read your other post about taking time off and maybe moving into the sharps and flats. Yahoo! Time off is essential! I've been at Session 4 since July 21st. It's challenging! I'm working with the metronome in the lesson book and slogging through the bonus material. Once I'm using the metronome I know it's just a matter of time. So far I don't feel the need to split the session in two.

I stayed in Session 3 a long time. I don't care about a timeline. I want to learn the material. First I wanted to get my sound to where I liked it while learning the fretboard and I was worried about the chords and especially barre chords. (I've talked with a number of folks who quit playing guitar when they came upon barre chords.) So I spent many hours on warm ups followed by chord work. I expanded the exercises to using the open strings up to the fifth fret, added exercises and made sure to start from both ends. Eventually I was naming all frets including sharps and flats as I played them, when finally I decided to get on with things. A side effect was a strong pinky and the sharps and flats don't befuddle me mentally.

By that time i had learned all the open chords and could with difficulty do the F barre chord in lesson 7. Now for a break I sometimes play with the F and slide it and the B major chord (the most awkward feeling chord for me so far). My "side work" was to look ahead at Steve's instruction--especially for the barre chords--and work on physical limitations and memorization, rather than studying other material. This is really paying off now, although who knows? I may take a long time anyway. This Session 4 stuff is intense. Good stuff. Just sharing in case it might help somebody.

Another thing that helped me finish off Session 3 was following Steve's advice (you are a fine instructor Steve!), starting at lesson 2 and just playing everything, rippng through it 100 bpm or as fast as possible using the metronome and continuing through the new material eventually with the metronome through mistakes and oops moves. For me that gives me more "miles on the strings" and balances out my tendency to focus on one section until pristine.

Rock on!

 

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Hi, I apologize for the late response as a lot has been changing for me, but I've still been practicing. Still on Session 4 but I am able to play through all of the regular material at the suggested bpm and 90 percent of the bonus stuff.  I've hit a block where I can play well with no metronome but when I add one to try and play it, I do horribly.  Slightly terrified that means I am building sloppy bad habits because of that.  And Fur Elise is killing me.  I know the notes, and most of the finger choreography but I can't get it to sound good.

@pkotof  Those sound like some good practice ideas!  I think I'll try to work them in to my routine.  I might have to move to start session 5 while finishing up the last bits of material in session 4.  Not worrying about the timeline and making sure the material is solid is exactly what I've been trying to think about.  

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Hi constancr: I'm working through the material with a metronome. I'm close, but not quite there. When the song doesn't sound right I go through it carefully with the metronome. That usually clears it up. I was suddenly puzzled about the eighth note e/c in the Entertainer. I found that I had started placing the beat on the c out of habit. Eighth notes are often on the offbeat, which is no big deal from my drumming. I love off beat stuff. Well, wrong! :-P

Hang in there. Way to keep going with life goings on. Me too. I quit last time, but not this time. I love playing guitar.

Correction: Before walking my dog this morning I wanted to say that I listened to Steve play the Entertainer multiple times last night. I had drifted from the correct way and back again. I counted with his playing the three e/c sections and found the second beat not played between the first and second e/c pairs. That makes four beats so I am relieved. Please let me know if I am once again wrong. I am a percussionist in rehab to become a musician, so it could take awhile. (How many players in a rock and roll band? Four: Three musicians and a drummer.)

Edited by pkotof
correction
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I'm starting session and I'm working on getting my Guitar Pro files setup.  I noticed that on the Treble Cleft that the Key Signature is marked as F#, where I've always seen one # on the Treble Cleft naming it as G.  Why does the book mark it as F#?  Is it because all F notes are actually played as F#?

image.png.5f99cde0db3c5c59e2e3edeb5e52c999.png

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@josev  The key of G major (or E minor) is indicated on the treble clef with a single sharp on the F line. All notes on the F line are played F#, because that is what the interval pattern of a major scale (M2 - M2 - m2 - M2 - M2 - M2 - m2) requires if the tonic (first pitch on the scale) is G. So a G major scale is: G - A - B - C - D - E - F# - G. If a natural sign appears in front of an F in that piece of music, the sharp is canceled for the duration of that measure and F natural is played. This same key signature might also signify E (relative) minor, which employs the same pitches but starts on the sixth scale degree and follows a different interval pattern (M2 - m2 - M2 - M2 - m2 - M2 - M2): E - F# - G - A - B - C - D - E.

At first, learning this will seem like raw memorization. In truth, there is much underlying symmetry, and as you become better acquainted, the patterns will emerge. Stick with it! 

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Hi all,

I am currently studying this session as well. So far I've really liked the Gibson course, everything is explained really well, but I'd still like to ask a question. 

Perhaps others are struggling with this as well, but I want to know if this is normal. I've reached Minuet in C and am still somewhat overwhelmed by all of the notes on paper at first. It took me about 10-20 tries before this piece started sounding OK. I watch the dvds before studying the book, watching the dvds, on the first attempt Minuet in C for example was going way too fast for me. Same with star spangled banner for instance. These songs sound really messy on the first attempt. Is this normal or is it just me? I've taken the estimated time to learn the previous concepts but still need a lot of attempts to get all of the notes where they need to be with each new song. It starts sounding okay eventually, but all of the notes definitely aren't in my fingers/head yet. I am assuming this is somewhat normal but would like to hear from others. Eventually playing is much like riding a car and I'll be able to play the song almost automatically. It will sound good in the end. However, am still struggling with each new piece.

I've played the guitar for about 10 years, but have only learned songs and chords from sites like youtube. Eventually that's not real progress since you don't get to know the instrument, which has frustrated me and made me purchase learn and master, and I'm hoping this course will get me where I really want to be, with a good understanding of the instrument and much more skill in both hands. Learning the notes has been really exciting, the course has been a real eye-opener, in that I realize I haven't made as much progress as I thought I would have. I'm even still picking the wrong strings every now and then, etc. I'm guessing all of this is somewhat normal and I probably shouldn't be asking these questions since I know practice will get me there eventually, but I want to make sure this is normal and not just me. 

Thanks! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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@kenneth the time to learn this session notes listed in the Bonus resources book can be ignored.

Each session takes as long as you need, Session 4 and 4b can take the average beginner months

Just watch that you don't stagnate in a session 

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6 hours ago, kenneth said:

Hi all,

I am currently studying this session as well. So far I've really liked the Gibson course, everything is explained really well, but I'd still like to ask a question. 

Perhaps others are struggling with this as well, but I want to know if this is normal. I've reached Minuet in C and am still somewhat overwhelmed by all of the notes on paper at first. It took me about 10-20 tries before this piece started sounding OK. I watch the dvds before studying the book, watching the dvds, on the first attempt Minuet in C for example was going way too fast for me. Same with star spangled banner for instance. These songs sound really messy on the first attempt. Is this normal or is it just me? I've taken the estimated time to learn the previous concepts but still need a lot of attempts to get all of the notes where they need to be with each new song. It starts sounding okay eventually, but all of the notes definitely aren't in my fingers/head yet. I am assuming this is somewhat normal but would like to hear from others. Eventually playing is much like riding a car and I'll be able to play the song almost automatically. It will sound good in the end. However, am still struggling with each new piece.

I've played the guitar for about 10 years, but have only learned songs and chords from sites like youtube. Eventually that's not real progress since you don't get to know the instrument, which has frustrated me and made me purchase learn and master, and I'm hoping this course will get me where I really want to be, with a good understanding of the instrument and much more skill in both hands. Learning the notes has been really exciting, the course has been a real eye-opener, in that I realize I haven't made as much progress as I thought I would have. I'm even still picking the wrong strings every now and then, etc. I'm guessing all of this is somewhat normal and I probably shouldn't be asking these questions since I know practice will get me there eventually, but I want to make sure this is normal and not just me. 

Thanks! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@kenneth Please don't feel bad about your progress so far! You're doing well and trust us, thousands of folks who learned guitar this way likely had the same experience; so it's normal! Just be patient, persistant, and practice regularly (daily 1/2 hour -1 hr achieves great results) and you'll get it! As Doug says, the time frame is just a loose guide and Session 4 is pretty big with a lot of new skills and concepts to absorb. So take it steady and learn it thoroghly.  All the Best N

ps just forget about looking at YouTube and all the other so called teachers... just focus on the course!

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@kenneth  All perfectly normal.  We have all been there.  Session 4 is a huge session.  Keep persevering as things will become easier and faster.  Remember you are learning music theory, training muscle memory and hand co-ordination all at the same time!  Also you are learning the foundations of guitar playing the correct way with a great teacher in Steve.  

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@kenneth As the folks above have said, your progress sounds totally normal. Remember, you are doing multiple things at once now: your eyes see the written note, your brain translates it, sends the signals to your fingers, your fingers go to the right fret and your other hand picks the right string. That will become more automatic as you go on. There will be less times through before a new piece sounds better. Take your time and have fun learning! If you want to see how far you've come, go back and revisit an earlier session and you will see how much easier that material is! 

 

 

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@Eracer_Team-DougH  @NeilES335  @Simira  @K9kaos

Thanks for the support! Learning and practicing is way more fun knowing this is to be expected. I will definitely take my time with this session. As you say that extra second of deciding what note needs to be picked can really mess things up for me at this stage, to make it even worse I'll sometimes pick out the wrong note/string after figuring out the correct one in my head. This improves after a few attempts and I'll eventually be able to play most of the song without having to read the notes. I'd say I practice 1/2 hour daily on average. Hearing the songs improve with practice is very rewarding, even more so knowing that's how it's supposed to be. 

Thanks again! Rest assured, I am done with the half-baked lessons on youtube... 

Best regards

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Hi Kenneth,

Hang in there! This stuff is challenging. I took a loong time in Session 4 and recently left for Session 5. I warm up by playing and naming all the first position notes including sharps and flats, then the octave jump exercise. As the chord speed improves with decent sound--I tend to be particular about the sound--I plan to return to individual note work with Steve's Fretboard workout.

Rock On!

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On 2/16/2020 at 1:13 AM, pkotof said:

Hi Kenneth,

Hang in there! This stuff is challenging. I took a loong time in Session 4 and recently left for Session 5. I warm up by playing and naming all the first position notes including sharps and flats, then the octave jump exercise. As the chord speed improves with decent sound--I tend to be particular about the sound--I plan to return to individual note work with Steve's Fretboard workout.

Rock On!

Hey,

Thanks, you seem to be on a roll, great job! 

That reminds me, If I may, I'd like to ask one more question about the individual notes. I tend to pick these with an upstroke instead of a downstroke (approaching the string from below), not sure why, but it just feels more natural to me. This of course also reverses the pattern in which I play the eighth notes; would this be problematic as far as technique goes? The only real difference I can hear is that the notes are slightly more trebly. This has become a habit already and I'd like to know if I need to unlearn this and switch to downstrokes only. To be honest the notes are more pronounced with a downstroke and have a nicer, woodier tone to them, but to me it just feels more natural to play them with an upstroke. 

Sorry if this is a silly question, I just want to make sure I won't end up with a wrong technique, since Steve's quite strict about which finger should be used to play certain notes as well. 

Thanks! 

 

 

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@kenneth  It's good that you're mindful of pick direction. The choice depends to some degreee on what's happening in the music: alternating bass? string skipping? and such. At this stage I'd encourage you to use alternate picking (up-down-up-down) as much as possible. It's hard to acquire speed if one's picking is all up or downstrokes.

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13 hours ago, kenneth said:

Hey,

Thanks, you seem to be on a roll, great job! 

That reminds me, If I may, I'd like to ask one more question about the individual notes. I tend to pick these with an upstroke instead of a downstroke (approaching the string from below), not sure why, but it just feels more natural to me. This of course also reverses the pattern in which I play the eighth notes; would this be problematic as far as technique goes? The only real difference I can hear is that the notes are slightly more trebly. This has become a habit already and I'd like to know if I need to unlearn this and switch to downstrokes only. To be honest the notes are more pronounced with a downstroke and have a nicer, woodier tone to them, but to me it just feels more natural to play them with an upstroke. 

Sorry if this is a silly question, I just want to make sure I won't end up with a wrong technique, since Steve's quite strict about which finger should be used to play certain notes as well. 

Thanks! 

 

 

@kenneth Congratulations on your progress so far; you're doing great!

Alternate pickking vs. all down strokes....I beg to differ slightly with my collegue DianeB on picking technique.

I believe in the early stages (like where you are) it's best to develop a solid downpicking technique focusing on this first. I don't believe Steve K mentions this in the LMG course, but here's what I mean.

You're observation on tone and picking technique is spot on. Upstrokes do tend to be weaker and more "trebly" than downstrokes. When you donwpick, work on getting a solid clear tone, and use a 'rest stroke", meaning, pick "thorough the string" ie inwards and down vs vertical and outwards. Briefly rest your pick on the next string below, before picking the next note.

If you practice this you'll notice a definate improvement in your tone and finger control.  Don't rush it... get used to the downstroke and "rest stroke" technique. 

There's nothing wrong with alternte picking, which is, as @DianeB says is essential for speed, but  in my humble opinion your current technique needs to be corrected now before it becomes an issue later.

You can add alternate picking to your tool kit later on. 

I hope that helps!  N

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@DianeB @NeilES335

Thank you!...I am not sure as to why I've developed the habit of picking upwards but I guess it has to do with how I anchor my right hand, it seems to be somewhat more comfortable and easier for me to blindly locate a string in this way if that makes sense. The right hand needs to be somewhat lifted on a downstroke which will make me hit the wrong strings at times as I'm trying to develop a sense for where the strings are without having to look at them, that said I'm fairly able to play all downstrokes but given my habit of playing upwards I'm a little bit worse at it, thanks to the course (really) I'm starting to recognize notes by ear, in doing so I've also noticed a difference in tone, the downwards pattern has a better tonal 'expression' - if that is the right term - for some reason. 

I'm glad I asked... You are right I guess, I shouldn't be paying for comfort with tone. I will try to turn the downwards picking pattern into a habit from now on... 

Thanks again! 

Best regards

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