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Are classical scales the way to learn the fretboard?


Eduardo

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Hi, I wonder if I'm barking up the wrong tree here. I have what I think is a really good scales primer from the mid 1980s that has all the major and their relative natural, melodic, and harmonic minor scales in both the open positions and then all other positions up the fretboard. Here it is on amazon: https://www.amazon.com/-/es/Harvey-Vinson/dp/0825621380 They're all written out in proper treble clef musical notation, no tabulature, so I'm obliged to relate the note on the fretboard to the position on the stave. Where it's important to know which string to play the note on, there's an indication in standard (classical) notation under the stave. There are even four really funky chords finishing off each scale that provide a gorgeous flourish that makes practicing them fun! I've recently returned to studying the guitar after a 15 year break (birth of kids, and other musical commitments as I also play woodwind and brass).Now  I'm going through the scales book from the beginning and I find it's helping me learn the fretboard and the relationship between the notes - in woodwind and brass, scales practice makes up at least 20 percent if not more of our practice time, and on the tenor sax I put in hours doing chords (yes, you can play them on a wind instrument, just one note at a time!) Early on in Steve Krenz's Learn and Master series he says that we shouldn't bother with the melodic and harmonic minor scales, and then in lesson 11 we're taught the 5 shapes of the pentatonic scale. I'm worried that if I only learn the shape of the pentatonic scale I'm never going to relate the positions on the fretboard to the actual note values. Am I missing something important here? I'm sure that Steve would not teach us bad practice, so perhaps I'm misunderstanding something. Am I wasting my time learning the "classical" way with the scales, and should I rely on Steve's 5 pentatonic patterns or is playing scales while reading the music a valuable exercise, and will it make me a more accomplished guitarrist? 

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I'm outraged! In America this costs $3.50 on Amazon (second hand, as it's out of print) and in Europe we get fleeced for €13.17 best offer, plus postage !!! You guys are so lucky over there in the USA, not only are Gibsons cheaper there, but even the scales books cost you less!

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Hi, Eduardo,

Welcome to the forum!

To get a truly satisfactory answer to your question, I recommend consulting with an experienced guitar teacher. If you give them an account of your past musical experience and present knowledge, and a vision of where you want to go, you will form a clear plan of what to do now and what to save for later.

For now, I can say that the melodic minor and harmonic minor scales are compositional tools. They exist to create authentic cadences (V or vii dim —> I or i). You will encounter them in melodies where they are called for and likely not even notice them.

After consulting with my own instructors, I deferred Steve’s session on pentatonic scales to focus on the major scales. This is just one approach. I think Steve introduced pentatonics in the course where he does to give the student momentum in learning the fretboard, and pentatonics are a little simpler than major scales.

So much depends on what you want to do with guitar. That’s where a real conversation with a teacher is invaluable. I'm sure my friends here will offer good insights.

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Hi Eduardo,

Yes, learning the major scales is essential in your development as guitar player. The good news is that Steve has created 2 Fretboard Workouts on Major Scale Mastery that you can order here:

https://gx169.infusionsoft.app/app/storeFront/handleStoreFrontLink?displayType=Product&id=125&displayName=Fretboard+Workout%3A+Major+Scale+Mastery+Level+1

https://gx169.infusionsoft.app/app/storeFront/handleStoreFrontLink?displayType=Product&id=129&displayName=Fretboard+Workout%3A+Major+Scale+Mastery+Level+2

I can guarantee you that when you have gone through all these exercises, you will know your major scales and your fredboard inside out, and you will have become a better guitar player.

Wim.

Edited by Wim VD1
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Thanks Diane and Wim, those are quite insightful and intelligent answers. Diane, are you a teacher by any chance? Your answer is making me do a bit of reflexion on my own learning, and that is straight out of a teacher-training manual!

Luckily, a very good friend of mine is both a professional guitar teacher and composer - and he's not pigeon-holed into any particular style, as he plays everything from heavy metal to flamenco, and he's a master at it all. I hadn't really paused to ask myself where I wanted to go with the guitar - I know that I don't really want to play classical because I get my fill of baroque and classical music on the flute which I've been playing over 40 years. I love listening to fingerstyle acoustic playing - Molly Tuttle is amazing, and I am a huge Jazz fan, so I guess that's probably the natural course for me. I guess there'll be no getting away from studying some seriously intense music theory and learning properly about harmony, but that's no big deal, it's time I got to grips with that.

Incidentally Wim, I listened to the recording that's embedded into your signature, and I really enjoyed it. Thanks for sharing this.

I guess I'll carry on learning the scales from the book as it can't do any harm, and use it as an accompaniment to Steve's course which I'll use as the "bread and butter" of my learning for the moment. Once I've finished the Learn and Master course I'll get hold of my teacher friend Dani and get some technique lessons and some ¿how can we call it? - "cultural direction" from him, and possibly back it up with the fretboard workout from Steve Krenz.

Thanks for your feedback guys.

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A teacher? Who, me?! I can't imagine what would give people that idea. 😉

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Diane and Wim, thanks for the input, that's three weeks since I asked, and I can happily confirm that by learning my scales minimum half an hour a day in the open position and up and down the fretboard, using musical score to relate the notes to their positions, combined with a "note finding" exercise, I'm making massive progress (as well as battering my fingers!)

The note finding exercise consists of playing any random note and then looking for all the corresponding notes, octave up and down, in all positions on the fretboard. This seems funnily equivalent to the harmonics exercises on saxophone and flute. (The difference is that the guitar tortures your fingers whereas the sax tortures your cheek and mouth muscles!)

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Wear those badges of honor on your fingertips with pride! Once I was mistaken for a violin player. 🤷‍♀️

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Welcome Eduardo!

I believe that what you are describing would be a good way to learn the fretboard, but there are as many ways to learn it as there are people :)

One of my teachers taught me to make up games, like playing a certain scale on a random part of the neck and reciting the notes out loud as I played them. I think the "3 note on a string" exercises are good ones too, that break you out of the shapes we usually see in our practice.

Another thing that's really helpful for me are the triad courses on the Guitar Gathering YouTube channel. There are Major, Minor, and Seventh triad videos with links to worksheets. I have been using these recently and they have definitely helped me know the fretboard better.

Good luck and keep us updated on your progress!

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