Help Me, Help You - Steve

[Steve Krenz]

Hey gang,

I like to think that I have a good handle on things but I realize my perspective and your perspective can be different.  So, I wanted to see if you could help me out with something - a sort of, "...Help me - help you" moment.

If you have a moment can you answer a few questions for me...

What kinds of resources would you like to see us put out?

What kind of guitar resource do you need?

What are you looking for in your guitar learning that you wish there was a resource for?

Any thoughts you have would be greatly appreciated to help me know if I'm on track for helping you as much as I can.

Thanks,

Steve

 

 

 

[Blue Dog]

Great Steve, It hard to answer your questions. there is so many answers. There is music theory. i would like to see it explain from beginning to end in one lesson. then put to the guitar.  I like rock and metal . old and new . i like to see song with bends and slides with song to practices to easy to start with . Most stuff you do is over my head on live lessons but it dont bother me . I want to get there.  I would like to see how to get the penatonic scale to soloing. With easy beginner solo.s over laying the penatonic scales. I would like to see more work books. That start out easy and get harder that works it way to a song. Playing the rytheme to the notes to the solo. like this one but better,

 

[Blue Dog]

There is so much more. Thanks Blue Dog

[Brad Baugh]

Hi,

I am happy with everything you have put out.  As I mentioned before I would like to see a specific labeled area on the web where all pdf downloads can be found.  Basically because I have either missed a show or have been going through older shows and they talk about downloading a pdf.  Sometimes I can find them in the old Gibson format, but we have the new format which would be easier to use.

Maybe a short course like your Jazz workshop on Classical Guitar i.e. tips on correct positioning and fingering for the shorter and broader neck ... little bit more information than what is in the L&M course and the Fingerstyle course.

This one may sound a little funny but an album of say 12 songs of each style (slow and fast) i.e. blues, jazz, country/western, pop, religious, etc. of you just playing with a group.  No comments just you playing. Something we can watch and listen to ... to use as a different form for practice.

Thanks for thinking about our needs and wants.

Brad

 

[colder]

Hi Steve!

I know you'll get all kinds of answers because everyone's objectives are different. I came up with some ideas for future resources, blog posts, etc. 

I LOVE the learning material that you do. I would also like to see your experience in some application type of resources. Just some brainstorming:

-How should I play when I'm playing with others vs alone, when I can do whatever I want? 

-How do you vary your playing when you're with specific other instruments? Piano, bass, drums, other guitars, vocalists, etc. 

-What about gigs? Where do I find them and how do I prepare for them?

-How can I be someone that other people want to play with? 

-What are good places for an advancing player to start when looking for live opportunities?

-How do you know when you're advanced enough for a certain playing situation? 

-What do you consider an intermediate player and what would be an advanced player? 

-How do you sculpt your live tone, versus what sounds good in the practice room? 

-What's the life of a musician really like?

[colder]

Finally - and this was something I LOVED and wished I had for guitar -

I had another resource (for bass guitar) that had a feature I really, really liked. It was like a L&MG course in most ways. 

In the book after each lesson there were several songs that used what you'd learned. You had a chart for those songs in the book, and then on the DVD there was a full band playing each of those songs, once with the bass, and once without. So I could pick up my bass in the living room, put the band up on the screen, and play along with them. First with the bass player, so I could follow his interpretation of things, and then without him, like I was the bass player. 

This could have some really cool applications for guitar I think. It could teach us to stay in time with the other instruments, to watch the others for cues, just... a realistic situation that let me simulate being in a band. Maybe sometimes you're the lead player, sometimes you're playing rhythmn. 

It was quite fun! I would totally be in for something like "Band packs" where you got 2 or 3 songs to learn that included video to play along with like what I described. I felt like a real bass player when I was using them

Edited May 15, 2018 by colder

[Odie]

SHOW ME THE QUAN !!!!!

Can't think of anything at the moment. 

[NeilES335]

11 hours ago, Steve Krenz said:

Hey gang,

I like to think that I have a good handle on things but I realize my perspective and your perspective can be different.  So, I wanted to see if you could help me out with something - a sort of, "...Help me - help you" moment.

If you have a moment can you answer a few questions for me...

What kinds of resources would you like to see us put out?

What kind of guitar resource do you need?

What are you looking for in your guitar learning that you wish there was a resource for?

Any thoughts you have would be greatly appreciated to help me know if I'm on track for helping you as much as I can.

Thanks,

Steve

 

 

 

Hi Steve;

I really liked the Fretboard Workout series, especially the Jazz workout.  (Very professionally done I might add...)  Once I "completed" the Jazz chord workout, I found it a bit of a leap to songs... so a course that I'd like to see is an extension of this course into playing chord progressions, chord melody and simple "standard" song arrangements. 

[K9kaos]

I am really enjoying your material already. The Learn and Master Course and Bonus, the Song Hits, and Fingerstyle.

I'm almost finished with the Major scales workouts. 

One thing I do miss is the Power workouts that used to be on the Gibson site. 

I found the open chord and barre chord ones especially helpful. I miss those! They were fun! 

 

[Plantsman13]

Phrasing Workout.  I would like to see you follow the three-tiered workout system to raise the bar from a basic approach to a much more complex one.  I see it as a "musical" extension of the Major Scales Workout.

[John Wells]

Looking back several years, I ask myself what was it I needed or wanted that would have improved my learning situation. The answer is that I needed two things that I had to go outside this wonderful L&MG course. The first was to have a “pre-guitar knowledge” to prepare me. Of course, at the time I was at the highest point of enthusiasm I would have until several years later, so I was ready to plunge on and get to playing. Then, Steve, your course whetted my appetite for theory, so I bought “Eddly’s Musical Theory for Practical People,” and commenced studying while I continued to practice, and the insight improved my enjoyment. I didn’t want to have the detailed knowledge of a music major, but I did wish to know the why’s and wherefores. So, the first advice I can give is that L&MG write, publish, and provide something like “Eddly’s,” with the explanation that it is for studying apart from learning to play guitar. The one thing I’d add that “Eddly’s” is short of, is a glossary of musical terms and symbols, such as that on the Mormon Church website (If you don’t love music or like to sing, the Mormons excommunicate you).

            The other thing I learned was that learning to read music is a skill apart from learning to play guitar, so I located a website called www.musictheory.com and found online drills of identifying notes. These drills facilitated my practice routine beyond the progress I would have made without them. So, Steve, I think a video game of practice reading music would be a great addition.

            With or without these enhancements, your L&MG is a wonderful course. Lotsa luck.

           

 

 

[V7#5b9]

@Steve Krenz

I understand you had made Genre Lesson Series on Jazz for ‘Gibson’s skills house’ that was never put out. You’ve done the Jazz Lesson 4 on a Live Lesson and that’s how I got the PDF. It indicates eight in-depth lessons on the foundations of Jazz guitar playing. I don’t know how much overlap there is with the lessons that were put out, e.g.”Jazz Basics, Jazz Turnarounds, The Ultimate Jazz Chord, Larry Carlton’s Super Arpeggio," etc.

But, even if the students still have the pdfs, chances are they don’t have the videos. Why not combine, reshoot, perhaps expand all those lessons and/or even add some new material, into one series on jazz guitar and offer it as a package or course, rather than individual fretboard workouts?

Anybody interested?

[db73]

Hi Steve,

 

First off, thanks for taking the time to ask us what we'd like to learn from you next.  There are lot's of great ideas here already, but there is one thing I'd love to see.

I would love a short course centered around how to "learn and master" a jazz standard from the Real book.  I'd love to see it start off with a very basic way to interpret and play, and then slowly add on more advanced elements so that you have an intermediate version or two, and an advanced version.  That way students could play along with the jam tracks right away but still have lots of ideas for things to work on as they grow musically.  I think this would be hugely beneficial for non-jazzers as well, as it would apply to learning any song from a lead sheet.

 

Whatever you choose to do, I'm sure I will enjoy it greatly, you are a talented teacher.

[DianeB]

Steve, two proposals for your consideration:

An index to the Live Lessons would be helpful. If you saved your scripts, this would be fairly straightforward: perhaps a few sentences or keywords describing the topic, the guest, interesting questions answered, and links to the video and any PDFs you still have available (see next suggestion). This could be a section of the discussion board, possibly in “Articles”. Yes, I know, there are at least 76 vids on the YouTube page now (sigh).

Some years have passed since you completed the original Learn & Master course. Now you know how students use the course. You’ve produced the spotlight courses, supplemental videos, and countless Tuesday night lessons, and kept teaching all the while. You might want to revisit the original curriculum with this perspective. I was originally inclined to suggest a second edition of the Bonus Resources book. But probably better would be a new publication, under your own imprint, perhaps with a video to accompany it.

Using the original course outline as a framework, you could place the Fretboard Workouts and spotlight courses in context. You could incorporate topics from live lessons (with those rough draft PDFs polished up), adapt the old Power Workouts/Skills House exercises, discuss the NNS, and expand a bit on music theory as you use it. You could address, in print, topics such as: working with a private instructor, playing in ensembles, and performing for an audience. It could include a bibliography of resources you recommend; no need to duplicate what’s already out there. Perhaps Dino Pastin would be interested in contributing.

[NeilES335]

48 minutes ago, DianeB said:

Steve, two proposals for your consideration:

An index to the Live Lessons would be helpful. If you saved your scripts, this would be fairly straightforward: perhaps a few sentences or keywords describing the topic, the guest, interesting questions answered, and links to the video and any PDFs you still have available (see next suggestion). This could be a section of the discussion board, possibly in “Articles”. Yes, I know, there are at least 76 vids on the YouTube page now (sigh).

Some years have passed since you completed the original Learn & Master course. Now you know how students use the course. You’ve produced the spotlight courses, supplemental videos, and countless Tuesday night lessons, and kept teaching all the while. You might want to revisit the original curriculum with this perspective. I was originally inclined to suggest a second edition of the Bonus Resources book. But probably better would be a new publication, under your own imprint, perhaps with a video to accompany it.

Using the original course outline as a framework, you could place the Fretboard Workouts and spotlight courses in context. You could incorporate topics from live lessons (with those rough draft PDFs polished up), adapt the old Power Workouts/Skills House exercises, discuss the NNS, and expand a bit on music theory as you use it. You could address, in print, topics such as: working with a private instructor, playing in ensembles, and performing for an audience. It could include a bibliography of resources you recommend; no need to duplicate what’s already out there. Perhaps Dino Pastin would be interested in contributing.

Hi Steve;

Again, I wish to thank you for the wonderful guitar learning materials you have (and continue to) put out over the years. Always professional, meaningful and useful. Certainly the best available "self  directed "learning of it's genre I'm sure.

I was also wondering... have you considered producing a brand new version of Learn and Master Guitar under the Guitar Gathering Label? (No Legacy or Gibson branding per se)  

(Similar to what  @DianeB suggests; " I was originally inclined to suggest a second edition of the Bonus Resources book. But probably better would be a new publication, under your own imprint, perhaps with a video to accompany it.) 

I know this would be a significant undertaking, possibly with some copy-write issues. I understand that the whole LMG course(s) evolved over time from it's inception, and there were (are) several versions, some of which led to the "bonus" resource book lessons, then Song Hits, and so on. Personally, I never really understood the "Bonus Resource"book; I thought that content should be included with the original lesson, and there could have been more songs with each Session at an appropriate skill level.  With the "new" version there could also be two different courses, ie; Learn the Guitar ( beginner, S1 though say S10, and then Intermediate/Advanced, Master the Guitar say S11 through S20.  Much of the ""original" material could be re-used, or updated, refined, or revised according to what has been learned over the past years  of use and feedback.

These "new "" courses could be sold on an on-line subscription basis or digital download, as us usually the case with other guitar sites, (rather than the physical CD's) providing a steady (well deserved) revenue stream for you and the Guitar Gathering website, Live Lessons etc.  My bet is it would be a big hit. 

 A short synopsis of a big idea... Thanks for asking; please excuse my verbosity!  I hope this was helpful. (You may be sorry you asked! LOL )

Edited May 17, 2018 by NeilES335
verbosity

[Tony cash]

Wow Steve you do so much for us on the community forum already. The L&M lessons are great.. Practicing everyday. The gear information and tech tips a big plus. Hope to make it to a gathering. The artist listed are awesome. Doing fantastic on all levels , thanks. 

[Eracer_Team-DougH]

I had a big reply typed.. don't think I need too.

Jazz.. I know there are a bunch of posts above on it, but hard 4 finger chords with long finger stretches that most will struggle with plus the acquired taste for jazz.. not sure if Jazz is a way to go... I know it's your passion.

Neil hit it on the head.. need a Learn Guitar main course redone, with more content in some sessions (IE session 13 is pretty sparse) and stream-line the regular and 'bonus' double disk session thing. 

bottom line.. people want to play songs, Hal Leonard Easy Pop is too simple sounding.. many TAB books are hard and take months to get even 1 song down. needs to be a bridge somewhere.

bonus supplements for songs could help us progress in getting those "first 10 songs we could play in a coffee shop " type of deal.. 

[edit]

let me explain the above thoughts.

1- Guitar Gathering Learn Guitar by Steve K. marketed by Steve/Guitar Gathering.. I don't see a future in the other companies marketing approach to LMG and sub-series.

(the main LMG course brought us here together in guitar camaraderie with LMG as the main source)

2- Workouts; the Workouts are great spotlighting a specific item. Speed/Agility, Fret-board and Jazz workouts. great additions to a already existing main course.

      -spot lights could include:

a) Classic Rock.. Session 13 of LMG is really small, and needs expansion. Classic Rock is a wide spectrum and can be grouped into different workouts in Decades.. 60's , 70's , 80's , etc.. pick a style for each group, don't over complicate the instructions, could have a Here's how to play say 60's Stone's Satisfaction, Jack Flash ,, 70's Stairway, Smoke on the Water, Walk this Way. 80's Sweet Child 'O Mine, Amanda etc.

       Level 1 here's a simple version, to sound ok at a family gathering, Level 2 detailed versions to play at bar band or coffee shop level, Level 3,, here's the theory behind these songs; since I know you like the theory approach to music.

(check with GG forum member Six String.. he's in a band and currently learning 33 songs for a concert, he'd be a good gauge on what songs to teach)

b) Expanded Jazz Songs.. why.. you like Jazz, a number of others on the forum like Jazz, the sounds are very colourful. 

c) Blues .. Yes I know you have a blues course; by the other company.. tried as I might to get past session 3 but got bogged down in the theory side of things. again.. another big wide brush. Delta Blues vs Chicago/Memphis Blues vs British Blues. lots of choices in each.. again Level 1.. sound good at family function. Level 2 bar band good, Level 3.. theory level of the songs.

d) Finger Style.. why..  you love finger style as much as Jazz.. but can be broking into Classical and General styles (yes you have a Finger Style course that covers lots of this already,,, again marketed by that other company)

I'm not sure how other web instructors "get away" with teaching popular songs without too much copy-write infringement.. think you'll know this a lot better than I ever will 

so my thinking is on the 3 level 20min each work out as you've been doing but..

L1 -ok for family/campfire, L2 -ok for bar/coffee-shop bands, L3 -the theory side.

 

What do I like about Legacy's Song Hits.. I love that you gave us the 'history' of the song before you taught it.. gives me some insight to the song.

 

last thought.. if it's physical resources you search for (other peoples) as I stated.. Hal Leonard's Easy Pop, single melody lines are very simple sounding.. big TAB books like Bonamassa and Rush, etc are pretty hard overall and required commitment to the song over time.. need books that are somewhere in the middle of those two concepts. Make  you sound great but not overly complicated.

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2018 by Eracer_Team-DougH

[V7#5b9]

@Eracer_Team-DougH

I hear you Doug and I understand your point of view. I couldn’t care less for jazz when I was younger. I sort of grew up through this guitar learning journey and developed an appreciation for jazz guitar. So it’s not so much the jazz itself that I acquired taste for, but the guitar that led me to it. Now, it’s true that there are difficult voicings that require longer finger stretches, but there are also a lot of fairly easy jazz chords that don’t require long stretches. Steve’s Jazz Chords Fretboard Workout does NOT include a single chord that covers more than 4 frets. As a matter of fact, most cover 3, 2, or even 1 fret.

Redo the main course? Sure, I could suggest a lot of things to be added. The question is how much is enough and how much is too much? Most students appear to take months to complete a single session. Do you think they would ever complete some mega course? Steve, being busy as he is, can hardly find the time to do a Fretboard Workout, not to mention a full-fledged course.

I think people need better guidance on how to complete what they already have so that they could move on. I get the feeling that too many students get hung up on mastering this or that before moving on, and instead of temporarily circumventing an obstacle, they end up stalling. Then at a later date they may start up again.

People want to play songs. Yes, of course, but what songs and in what style? How can you pick 10 or 20 songs that will appeal to everybody? It’s rather unlikely, don’t you think? What about copyrights? Forget it! Sheet music is for that. What people need are learning paths. For example, if you want to play country songs, you need to learn these guitar skills, acquire this amount of theoretical knowledge, and here are the resources. I generalize, but you know what I mean. Then, if you still need help figuring out how to play your favourite songs, you will need a resource that does just that.

I think that to some extent Steve already has identified the student needs and that’s why he puts out the Fretboard Workout series. Although a revamped and expanded main course would probably be welcome, especially by new students, I’m not sure that it would be the best option at this point. There are tons of great supplemental resources out there. I think that redoing ‘Gibson’s skills house' series and making it available again is a better option and somewhat less work for Steve.

[Nutty1]

I would also like to thank you Steve for this wonderful forum and for all of the superb learning resources that you have produced. I know that I would not be a guitar player without you!???

I also think that something along the lines of the "Gibson's skills house" would be great. I like the fact that the fretboard workouts are bought as a one off payment and will still be mine in a years time as opposed to a subscription running out while my arthritis is playing up or if life gets in the way of guitar playing. 

I think the original L&M course still stands strong and it would be a shame  to re-write it (who would want to re-paint the Monalisa?) or to spoil a good relationship with L&M. Perhaps L&M would be amenable to putting a link to this site in their guitar web pages to route more people here, as this site does advertise and provide support for the L&M course? They could freeze the existing guitar forums and say that the course is supported by a new forum with the same wonderful teacher.

My learning curve at the moment is figuring out how to get rhythm guitar and lead guitar to fit into a song. What makes a good rhythm guitar part  and how should it interact with the drums and bass parts? How do you put riffs into a song? What makes a good chord progression for a song, how do you make the verse, chorus and bridge sound different bur similar enough to fit together? How do you build momentum in a song? You may have answered these in your live lessons already but as I am in the UK I am always asleep at 1am. ?

Edited May 18, 2018 by Nutty1

[gotto]

I am onboard with the Skills House concept reboot. I found it helpful and informative and a device that could flex with varied student interests and learning paths. I do miss it.

Greg

[Blue Dog]

Ok Steve i have thought all week about it . Here it is come to my house once a week and show me how to play and what to fix and i will be happy. Just kidding. Your great and the suggestions above. are great ones . Good luck Blue Dog

[V7#5b9]

@Steve Krenz

It would be helpful to know your take on the current replies as well as what your possible future plans are. Students could refocus their requests and suggestions based on your perspective. Would you care to chime in at this point?

[Dave White]

Steve - I loved the old Skills House videos - they were so well done.

[NeilES335]

7 hours ago, Dave White said:

Steve - I loved the old Skills House videos - they were so well done.

I liked them too..good "bite size ' lessons and tips.

[Randy120]

I think detailed information on Arpeggios would be a great benefit for me learning how to solo. I really want to break out of playing in position. Playing chords and progressions in 6 different positions would also be helpful. 

Edited May 21, 2018 by Randy120