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NeilES335

Session 14 - Giving Your Playing Some Style

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A Forum for Learn and Master Guitar Students to ask questions, make comments, receive advice and encouragement, and post their progress.

 

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Getting started on S14.  This one looks like fun...  improving techniques I know and adding  some new ones?.

Anyone with me?

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Congrats on your progress, Neil.

Enjoy Session 14!

Wim.

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On 7/6/2018 at 10:15 AM, NeilES335 said:

Getting started on S14.  This one looks like fun...  improving techniques I know and adding  some new ones?.

Anyone with me?

About a month now on S14...coming along quite well.

Slides, bends to pitch pretty well done.. Octaves too, although playing along with jam track is a bit harder than it looks. (having an interest in jazz , I really want to get this down well) You need to know your scale hoizontally as well as vertically! The biggest part of the Session is memorizing the 7 Arpeggio forms played with hammer on' s / pull offs . This will take a little while longer..  

(I jumped into S15 for a look and think I wont be there too long ?)

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On 8/6/2018 at 1:47 AM, NeilES335 said:

About a month now on S14...coming along quite well.

Slides, bends to pitch pretty well done.. Octaves too, although playing along with jam track is a bit harder than it looks. (having an interest in jazz , I really want to get this down well) You need to know your scale hoizontally as well as vertically! The biggest part of the Session is memorizing the 7 Arpeggio forms played with hammer on' s / pull offs . This will take a little while longer..  

(I jumped into S15 for a look and think I wont be there too long ?)

In S14 (which is mostly a series of "technique " lessons)  Steve introduces Arpeggios, (7th position in Key C)using hammer on /pull off technique. He seems to be giving an overview here, and alludes  to a more detailed theory based lesson in S17.   I cannot, however, find any referrence to Arpeggios in S17 (3 note per string scales, definately). In the "Your ready to move on " comments , arpegios are not mentioned. 

Is the intention to have the stident memorize the arpeggio paterns during this session or just  introduce them to practice hammer on / pull-off technique?

Anyone have any thoughts on this? 

 @Wim VD maybe yòu could comment please?

Edited by NeilES335

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@NeilES335,

Hi Neil,

The Session 14 Bonus Materials contain an intro to arpeggios. The exercise is a harmonized major scale in C, played as 7th arpeggios. The harmonized major scale is further explained in Session 15.

The course however does not contain any further coverage of arpeggios.

It was only in Session 19 (soloing), that I became really aware of the importance of arpeggios. In this Session, Steve explains the concept of Chord Tone Soloing (when playing a solo over a chord progression, the chord tones of the underlying chord are the safe notes to land on in your solo).

To put Chord Tone Soloing into practice, the only way I find working for me is to learn chord arpeggios and to build the muscle memory.

Now this is a big task. Following the CAGED system, this means learning 5 moveable patterns for major and 5 for minor triads, and extend that to also cover 7th chords (major, minor, (half-) diminished etc.). 

The resource I used for this is Chord Tone Soloing from Barrett Tagliarino.

I have included arpeggios in my daily practice routine for about 6 monts now, and it is worth the effort. To be able to instantly make the connection between the chord, the chord tones (and the related scale or mode) is a very important skill and is a breakthrough in my development as a guitar player. 

As you know I started the L&M Blues course last week. Where Sessions 2 and 3 of that course are hard to many students, it is the knowledge of 7th chord arpeggios that helps me through these sessions without real issues.

So I can only recommend to put the effort into learning arpeggios in depth, because you will benefit from it in your guitar learning journey later.

Wim.

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@Wim VD  Thank you so much Wim for your time and detailed response ?. Having recently completed this stage I was sure you would know. Your comments could assist others as well .     I will do as you recommend.  

All the best with the Blues course (for you,  it should be relatively easy ?)

 

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Now he may have said things differently between the Legacy and Gibson versions.

I'll check what he says on my Legacy version tonight 

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I second @Wim VD comments. @NeilES335, Since you are interested in jazz, I also recommend learning arpeggios. However, an in-depth study of arpeggios is beyond the scope of L&MG. And so are the related scales or modes.

In jazz every chord and arpeggio are viewed from the perspective of its related scale or mode. Arpeggios are the backbone or framework of a  solo. They are targeted with various approach tones that resolve to them. At the point of chord change preferably a primary guide tone of the next chord is targeted to imply the change in the solo line itself.

Therefore, it’s not enough to learn the arpeggio shape and know where the roots are. You really need to know the function of all arpeggio degrees, as well as the function of the remaining scales degrees it comes from, to properly construct your lines.

For example, for a major tonality you need to know at least seven scales or modes in at least five (CAGED), but preferably seven (Extended CAGED) patterns. Ideally, the goal is to learn each scale, the associated chord and arpeggio simultaneously or as one. It may seem like a huge task, but each component reinforces the others. Learning them separately only causes initial confusion and delays full understanding of the “Big picture.”

Yes, you can get away with playing the C major scale instead of the mixolydian mode over the G7 or V7 chord in the key of C, but by superimposing the ionian mode over the V7 chord, you lose the functional perspective. You no longer know where your target tones are, unless you do some serious mental gymnastics. And since most scales contain at least one “avoid” note, you may easily stumble upon it.

For an in-depth instruction in jazz improvisation on guitar I highly recommend Richie Zellon’s Bebop Guitar Improv Series. I admit the amount of material is staggering and it does take time, but the course is simply stellar. You won’t be improvising any time soon, therefore the sooner you start the better. You can always have fun playing something simpler until you get there.

Yesterday, I put up some interesting vids from Richie on my blog. Check ‘em out! He’s just completed the second and final volume of the course. Chord melody and building harmony on guitar is his next project.

Anyway, back to woodshedding. Drop me a line if you have any specific questions regarding BGIS! I don’t check the forum all that often these days.

Edited by V7#5b9
Correction
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Thanks Gerard; I have watched many of Ritchie Zellon's video's on YouTube...and through your blog.   I'll keep it in mind.  

 Before I get off into any other courses, my intention is to complete the LMG course, (which of course has some Jazz content.) with the odd detour, no doubt. 

 In the  past I've ventured off into some  Truefire  basic jazz lessons with Frank Vignola, who's teaching style I like.

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Hi all.  I'm here.  Finishing up S13 today or tomorrow but starting this session today.

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53 minutes ago, matonanjin said:

Hi all.  I'm here.  Finishing up S13 today or tomorrow but starting this session today.

Hey Ron  Thats great!  Enjoy s14!  This one focuses on techniques, some Im sure you likely know. 

Personally, the part that is taking time and effort is memorizing 7 arpeggio forms. While the lesson is hammer on/pull offs, i figure i may as well work on the arpreggios too. Im trying for 2 per week so I'll be here a while longer. Meanwhile i skipped ahead and am working on S15 as well.

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On 8/15/2018 at 9:49 AM, NeilES335 said:

Hey Ron  Thats great!  Enjoy s14!  This one focuses on techniques, some Im sure you likely know

Personally, the part that is taking time and effort is memorizing 7 arpeggio forms. While the lesson is hammer on/pull offs, i figure i may as well work on the arpreggios too. Im trying for 2 per week so I'll be here a while longer. Meanwhile i skipped ahead and am working on S15 as well.

Neil, yes, once again I am hoping that since I've been working some of these techniques, bending, sliding, etc., "on the side", I'll spend a little less time here than I might of.  We'll see?

 

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8 hours ago, matonanjin said:

Neil, yes, once again I am hoping that since I've been working some of these techniques, bending, sliding, etc., "on the side", I'll spend a little less time here than I might of.  We'll see?

 

I find that at this "master" stage, the course is written in such a way as to give the  student more discretion as to what they want to work (and when) on along with any "side studies" . 

All the best?

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Well, after 2 months or so , Ive been through S14 lesson numerous times and completed the criteria. So,  I think I'll  movie on to S15, Electric Guitar.  

I believe I have a good grasp of the techniques from this session ; maybe not perfection but good. I had asked for opinions on completely memorizing the arpeggio patterns, and I have gotten 4 /7  "under my fingers" so far . So, I'll keep working on it

S15  should be a brief stop as I've already been working on this too ... just the Harmonized Major Scale Worksheet chart to do really . It is a fun one if I ever get a chance to use the amp at any volume ?)

Edited by NeilES335

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The thought was, originally, that since I've been working some of these techniques, that I wouldn't be here long.  So much for that theory.  I got distracted by some other things, guitar, health and family.  So I have been away from this session for months.  But the beginning of last week I started over.  Dare I say, "I don't think I'll be here too long"?!  🙄  Ok.  I won't say it.

But I'm back!

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