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Guitar Center’s $1 billion Debt


Dave White

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Guitar Center's billion dollar debt, musical tastes, and even a quote from George Gruhn:

https://www.dailynews.com/2018/03/20/guitar-centers-1-billion-in-debt-reveals-truth-about-musical-tastes/

A billion dollars in debt - wow!

Maybe we should all run out and buy something from them this weekend. :)

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Nice read , lot of good facts .about guitar hero's today there are nun. Joe Boss, Clapton, Angus Young, etc. all has become predictable. same old same old. Ticket prices so high the younger folks can not afford to attend. 

I read the other day the the reason the music to day mostly sucks is that the record labels will not produce a record that does not have a 1, 4, 5  6.    music progression and that is stopping a lot on great artist from getting recorded. That dont want to use that chord progression. So that makes every song sound the same. The Day of the Doors And zeppelin. even the great full Dead   are gone. They where not afraid to Change. Metallica even changes from album to album. . That leads to there success. 

Back to guitar center i Dont think if they where gone tomorrow nobody will miss them That much . I go there a lot but dont buy any thing . Look at the used stuff. If i want something i get it online. From them are some one else who ever has the best price.  Most of the time i go across the street to Sam Ash. Nicer store same prices. Better Service. Music rooms to play in. Can not buy a Fiddle at Guitar center or a trumpet. or Bass.  Sam Ash has them all. 

As far as rap and Hip Hop that ant Music. It just a Beat. With words put to it. A three year old can Do it. But what it ant is a 1, 4 , 5, 6. Progression and that says it all .

 Tool is a band that breaks that 1,4,5,6, Mold . they are great band that uses theory. in there songs . that break things up.  give them a look in to and see the possibilities.    

Edited by Blue Dog
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5 hours ago, Dave White said:

Maybe we should all run out and buy something from them this weekend. :)

Great excuse for GASing!

Sad about Guitar Center.

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2 hours ago, Blue Dog said:

I read the other day the the reason the music to day mostly sucks is that the record labels will not produce a record that does not have a 1, 4, 5 .    music count and that is stopping a lot on great artist from getting recorded. That dont want to use that chord progression. So that makes every song sound the same. The Day of the Doors And zeppelin. even the great full Dead   are gone. They where not afraid to Change.

That is exactly what my Udemy songwriting teacher was saying, most of the modern music is written to a formula.

Maybee that explains why I have not bought many "new" albums lately and most of the stuff that I buy is music from way back, like Led Zeplin!???

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It was a video about the Four Chord that killed pop

 

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Things are changing, that's for sure.  Nice read.

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Thank you for posting Dave and Blue Dog. Both  the article and the video were interesting.  

 

 

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Actually I have observed with interest the "Millennials" . My daughters are Millennials. I have found them to be the product of a very Liberal educational system, probably more Liberal indoctrination. I kept hearing some pretty far left philosophies coming home from schools. Even our TV shows are   being censored now. Right wing leaning family shows like Last Man Standing are being removed from the air even though they have respectable  ratings. While we are buried with Social Comments  on Gender Benders and liberal talking points ad nauseum. Gave up TV myself as a waste of time. 

Millennials really are lacking in creativity today. Amazing, the education system is just cookie cutting out their grads who  need Community College at the least to really say they are educated and ready to work. And their music is beyond the putrid.

They demonstrate for women's rights and gender neutrality, all the while being indoctrinated by their rapcrap to listen to women being called "Hoes" and "B******" and useful for one thing. Rapcrap and Hip Hop should have their own awards so that real people can avoid it.

I find it an infringement of parental authority and I am actually dead centre of the political spectrum.

Edited by Grog
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@Grog, there is no politics on here and you know better than this.  Stop it.

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10 minutes ago, matonanjin said:

@Grog, there is no politics on here and you know better than this.  Stop it.

Not "Politics" but an observation from an educated Father with a minor in Anthropology. Delete it if you want to.

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7 hours ago, Grog said:

Actually I have observed with interest the "Millennials" . My daughters are Millennials. I have found them to be the product of a very Liberal educational system, probably more Liberal indoctrination. I kept hearing some pretty far left philosophies coming home from schools. Even our TV shows are   being censored now. Right wing leaning family shows like Last Man Standing are being removed from the air even though they have respectable  ratings. While we are buried with Social Comments  on Gender Benders and liberal talking points ad nauseum. Gave up TV myself as a waste of time. 

Millennials really are lacking in creativity today. Amazing, the education system is just cookie cutting out their grads who  need Community College at the least to really say they are educated and ready to work. And their music is beyond the putrid.

They demonstrate for women's rights and gender neutrality, all the while being indoctrinated by their rapcrap to listen to women being called "Hoes" and "B******" and useful for one thing. Rapcrap and Hip Hop should have their own awards so that real people can avoid it.

I find it an infringement of parental authority and I am actually dead centre of the political spectrum.

Hi Grog i know where you a coming from i see it every day. 57 channels and nothing on . Now it 800 channels a still nothing on. I dont even watch the news it has be come tabloid. i watch the new that shows what was said. so i can get it from the horses mouth. so i can make my own thoughts on the subject. I dont like being told what some one said . that's hear say. It's a sad day when someone can not have there own thought's and not allowed to make up there own minds. Take care man your cool.

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With Gibson's troubles and now this it seems that art and profits aren't always compatible.  They aren't even in the same realm.  People need instruments to explore their creativity.  Instrument makers need to make a living.  It's the greed factor that doesn't belong.

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To me this period looks like the 80s. Yes, a lot of music especially pop music went into electronic and synth type of stuff, but there were plenty of guitars being played in other genres. Now instead of the hair bands we have the indie singer/songwriters playing guitars, but the instrument is still out there singing. 

Besides that, for me, it's about the joy it brings me, not about what's top of the pops :)

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Lots of good music out there but no-one knows about it. Seen this group and will see them again when I can.

 

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@Blue Dog 

About the four chords that killed the Pop music. I totally get it, but let’s not forget that from the functional harmony standpoint in tonal music, that’s all there’s to it. Yes, the 1-4-5-6 will get boring quickly if that’s all you play, but any progression no matter how sophisticated, at its core, boils down to the three basic functional elements: tonic, subdominant, and dominant: the 1-4-5. The other chords in a key function as either 1, 4, or 5. 

You can reharmonize the 1-4-5 by including the relative minor or vice versa, add passing and approach chords, using modal interchange (borrowing chords from parallel minor or vice versa), using secondary dominants, substitution chords, modulate to another key, use inversions, but at its core the progression pertaining to any specific key will be some combination of the 1-4-5. 

Bottom line: we can scoff at the simplicity of 1-4-5-6 as long as we understand it. A newbie might think they should avoid the progression altogether and wonder why every teacher begins the harmony lesson with the 1-4-5 progression.

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10 hours ago, Don said:

Lots of good music out there but no-one knows about it. Seen this group and will see them again when I can.

 

What I meant to say is that ther is good music but it is not mainstream so it gets lost to the average person who listens to  the 1-4-6-6 formulated music that get played on radio, etc.

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It seems to me that a lot of the great music out there is more local now.

With streaming and everything else, people aren't actually buying albums anymore, which takes away what used to be one of a musician's potential revenue streams. Now you have to make all your money by performing live, it would seem, unless you're the type who's going to get millions of plays on Spotify. It must be getting harder and harder to make a living as a musician. Not that I would know, since I'm only a hobbyist, just reading the tea leaves.

So I agree with what someone said above, there's still lots of good music being made out there but fewer people know about each artist. There are many more small time artists and few big ones, except for the prefabricated pop stars who are more of a brand than a music act. 

But I think things will bounce back. The pendulum moves in every generation and eventually people will want to hear real music again.  

Edited by colder
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Rock isn’t dead. Old people generally just can’t be bothered to listen to it.

A few days on Pandora with an open mind is all anyone needs to know there are plenty of youngsters out there putting out killer rock and roll. The self indulgent 64 bar guitar solos may be absent, but it’s rock and roll never the less.

The business has changed and these bands will likely not have auditorium shows, but rock has always been on the fringes of popular music and few acts of any genre reach that level.  Swap “disco” for hip hop and this article could be from 40 years ago.

Maybe Gibson, Fender and PRS are in trouble because they have gotten stupid with their product and are pushing products that few can afford and serve to convince potential customers of the inferiority of their lesser product lines.

Maybe Guitar Center is in trouble because most of their stores are in slum malls, they are often staffed by uninformed and or rude/disinterested people, they carry a ton of junk no one wants and occasionally use bait and switch advertising.

 

Edited by Six String
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On 3/31/2018 at 11:05 AM, Grog said:

Actually I have observed with interest the "Millennials" . My daughters are Millennials. I have found them to be the product of a very Liberal educational system, probably more Liberal indoctrination. I kept hearing some pretty far left philosophies coming home from schools. Even our TV shows are   being censored now. Right wing leaning family shows like Last Man Standing are being removed from the air even though they have respectable  ratings. While we are buried with Social Comments  on Gender Benders and liberal talking points ad nauseum. Gave up TV myself as a waste of time. 

Millennials really are lacking in creativity today. Amazing, the education system is just cookie cutting out their grads who  need Community College at the least to really say they are educated and ready to work. And their music is beyond the putrid.

They demonstrate for women's rights and gender neutrality, all the while being indoctrinated by their rapcrap to listen to women being called "Hoes" and "B******" and useful for one thing. Rapcrap and Hip Hop should have their own awards so that real people can avoid it.

I find it an infringement of parental authority and I am actually dead centre of the political spectrum.

I had a somewhat lengthy response but decided it was too political for GG.

So I'll just say, I don't know why it seems women of my generation just went out and succeeded and seemed to have no inkling that they were not supposed to be able to compete in a mans world, as we are told today. 

There will always be barriers. Successful people just always find a way over, under, around, or through.  The playing field will never be 100% level (for men or women), but I don't accept today's narrative that the entire universe is tilted against women. Its an insult to the many successful women I have known in civilian life, and my brief time in the Army Reserve.

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9 hours ago, colder said:

 

With streaming and everything else, people aren't actually buying albums anymore, which takes away what used to be one of a musician's potential revenue streams. Now you have to make all your money by performing live, it would seem,

You would think that @colder.  And yet you still hear of bands going on the road "to support" their new album.  Recently a blues guy, Mike Zito,  that has been somewhat of a friend, said this very thing.  He and I were talking about a year ago after his new album, "Make Blues Not War" came out.  I asked him when he was going to get back to Omaha and he said, "In a few months.  We're going back on the road to support the new album".   Yet, at one of these concerts, not just Mike's but anyone's, if you go to the merchandise table it doesn't seem like they sell enough product, cd's or T shirts or anything, to pay for their gas.    Maybe the plan is to get out in public and drive sales on Amazon?

I don't have a narrative nor am I trying to be argumentative.  I'm simply saying I just don't understand it.  Unless one is a huge draw there isn't much earnings from the performing live either.  In a limited amount I'm involved with our local blues society.  I've seen what some of the bands get paid to play at our weekly Thursday night blues show. And it's not just the local musicians.  It's big names.  Over the last few months we've seen Davy Knowles, Toronzo Cannon, Coco Montoya, Tab Benoit, Jimmy Thackery,  and Mike Zito, as I mentioned.  It's embarrassing what we pay them.

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On 4/10/2018 at 8:33 AM, matonanjin said:

You would think that @colder.  And yet you still hear of bands going on the road "to support" their new album.  Recently a blues guy, Mike Zito,  that has been somewhat of a friend, said this very thing.  He and I were talking about a year ago after his new album, "Make Blues Not War" came out.  I asked him when he was going to get back to Omaha and he said, "In a few months.  We're going back on the road to support the new album".   Yet, at one of these concerts, not just Mike's but anyone's, if you go to the merchandise table it doesn't seem like they sell enough product, cd's or T shirts or anything, to pay for their gas.    Maybe the plan is to get out in public and drive sales on Amazon?

I don't have a narrative nor am I trying to be argumentative.  I'm simply saying I just don't understand it.  Unless one is a huge draw there isn't much earnings from the performing live either.  In a limited amount I'm involved with our local blues society.  I've seen what some of the bands get paid to play at our weekly Thursday night blues show. And it's not just the local musicians.  It's big names.  Over the last few months we've seen Davy Knowles, Toronzo Cannon, Coco Montoya, Tab Benoit, Jimmy Thackery,  and Mike Zito, as I mentioned.  It's embarrassing what we pay them.

Oh, sure I take your meaning. I was thinking more of the sorts of artists who can sell out larger venues. It seems like they make most of their money from touring now.

For small time artists, it's tough. I went to see a very very talented singer/songwriter recently; she's from the UK, has a decent following, a couple of albums out. She and her band, which was her husband and a couple of other guys, one of whom doubled as a tech, were driving themselves around the country playing wherever they could play, and staying with fans who would put them up for a night or two. 

In a way that's a really neat and romantic sort of notion - the troubadour on the road, playing for his keep. But it doesn't really make a life when you are just barely getting by, you know? It seems in the past this person could have been selling records, because she's getting decent airplay. But anymore, everyone streams and from what I have read the artists' cut of that is almost nothing. 

Anyway - the world is changing a lot in music. 

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I'm not sure many bands made money on records.  The record companies did. 

But in the past, bands used to tour to promote their records.  Nowadays, they use their records to promote their tours. 

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3 hours ago, colder said:

For small time artists, it's tough. I went to see a very very talented singer/songwriter recently; she's from the UK, has a decent following, a couple of albums out. She and her band, which was her husband and a couple of other guys, one of whom doubled as a tech, were driving themselves around the country playing wherever they could play, and staying with fans who would put them up for a night or two. 

In a way that's a really neat and romantic sort of notion - the troubadour on the road, playing for his keep. But it doesn't really make a life when you are just barely getting by, you know? It seems in the past this person could have been selling records, because she's getting decent airplay. But anymore, everyone streams and from what I have read the artists' cut of that is almost nothing. 

Anyway - the world is changing a lot in music. 

It sounds a lot like the story of some artists I know personally. It’s probably a story of the majority of small time artists these days. We’re just hobbyists having fun. They try hard to make a living as musicians. Regardless of the changing music world, most if not all new artists have to go through the growing pains. Few make it big, some make it small, and some don’t make it at all. But, I think the formula for success is still the same. Unless you’re an already established and successful artist, you gotta get out there and perform. You gotta do some covers, songs people love to hear, before they are willing to listen to and accept your own stuff. 

The Tin Pan Alley era was the golden age of non-performing songwriters who basically are the fathers of the Great American Songbook. They knew how to write great songs. In the 1960s, bands and songwriters who wrote and performed their own material took over the popular music charts. We all know who the successful ones are. They also knew how to write great songs.

Over the last 3 decades or so there’s been an abundance of mediocre material written by formula to push sales. There are exceptions, of course, and maybe it’s an oversimplification, but today’s general mindset of instant gratification adds to the problem. Indie record labels seem to be the answer for aspiring artists who want to break the overused songwriting formula, but breaking through still requires the hard legwork. 

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